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Author Topic:   apocryphal stories and mainstream theology
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1597 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 16 of 29 (130572)
08-05-2004 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Cold Foreign Object
08-04-2004 7:07 PM


Judging by your illiterate punctuation skills contained in the OP maybe you should graduate from high school before asserting expertise in Bible.
actually, i just got my associates degree today. next semester i'm taking a class on the bible, and hopefully the semester after that i'm taking a hebrew class. i wasn't asserting expertise, but i'm sure someone here knows a lot more than the typical "god wrote it" fundamentalist.
ad hominem attacks are not appreciated. i choose to punctuate and capitalize in this fashion. this is certainly not in any way a legitimate academic debate, thesis, or publication. looking professional is simply not my priority.
Do you even know what the canon is ?
yes, you shoot large round pieces of metal out of them using gunpowder.
the question is, do you? who decides what is canon, and what is not? god? the council of nicea? who? if it's god, why the conflicts? the facts simply support more human involvement than divine.
You are the typical evo who thinks whatever knowledge they possess in science instantly qualifies them as Bible proficient.
no, i am an atypical christian. but you are quick to judge, aren't you? i'm not exactly qualified as bible-proficient. but any qualification i have comes from the fact that i have read it, learned about its history, archaeology, literary influences, and that i am actually capable of thought an analysis beyond "god wrote it, it must be true"

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3971
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 17 of 29 (130577)
08-05-2004 4:01 AM


Was an "Apocryphal Gospels" program on PBS earlier tonight
Caught part of it - If interested, keep an eye out for a repeat.
Commentary included from the author of "The DeVinci(sp?) Codes".
Moose

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3301 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 18 of 29 (130797)
08-05-2004 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
08-04-2004 7:38 PM


Where do you get yours ?
You perfectly typify mainstream/crowd pleasing spineless subjectivity.
When you cannot refute with content - true to this politically correct world - you break out a racist slander which all intelligent people know is the refuge for the defeated and simple-minded.
Until I saw your photograph I thought you were a coffee house yuppie.
Of course the KJV contained the Apocrypha, and elements decided to edit the canon.
Anytime someone wants to muzzle a source I want to know why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 08-04-2004 7:38 PM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 29 (130803)
08-05-2004 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object
08-05-2004 6:30 PM


Anytime someone wants to muzzle a source I want to know why.
What in the world are you talking about?
The Apocrypha was not a part of the canon when the KJV came out. Who is muzzling any source? That is why it is called the KJV PLUS the Aprocrypha.
Have you read the Apocrypha? How about the OT Aprocrypha?
What makes you think anyone has muzzled anyone?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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Jeannot
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 29 (131829)
08-09-2004 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
08-05-2004 6:39 PM


Side issue
1 & 2 Maccabees and the Book of Tobit are part of the Catholic Bible, but are regarded as apochryphal by Prots.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 29 (131847)
08-09-2004 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jeannot
08-09-2004 9:44 AM


Re: Side issue
That's correct, however
# Additions to Daniel (Apocrypha)
# Judith (Apocrypha)
# Esdras (Apocrypha)
# Additions to Esther (Apocrypha)
# Susanna (Apocrypha)
# 1 Maccabees (Apocrypha)
# 2 Maccabees (Apocrypha)
# 4 Ezra (Apocrypha)
# Prayer of Manassheh (Apocrypha)
# Sirach (Apocrypha)
# Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha)
# Baruch (including the Epistle of Jeremiah) (Apocrypha)
# Tobit (Apocrypha)
# Bel (Apocrypha
were included in the 1611 King James Version of the Bible.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Jeannot
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 29 (131863)
08-09-2004 11:45 AM


???
Okay, but were they listed separately as Apochrypha?

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jar
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 29 (131879)
08-09-2004 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Jeannot
08-09-2004 11:45 AM


Re: ???
When replying, use the little red reply button on the post you are replying to. That keeps things threaded and notifies the poster that someone replied.
Yes, in the 1611 KJV the books that I listed were called the Apochrypha.
There are quite a few other books though that are also considered apochryphal, even more than just the ones in the 1611 list. Also, manty that are considered Aporchrypahal by the Roman Catholic and Protestant faiths are included in the basic canon of other churches.
For example, in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, 1 Esdras and the Ezra Apocalypse, Pseudo-Josephus, Jubilees and Enoch are included. In the New Testament, the Book of the Covenant, Clement and Didascalia are included.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Jeannot, posted 08-09-2004 2:23 PM jar has replied

  
Jeannot
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 29 (131943)
08-09-2004 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
08-09-2004 12:16 PM


Re: ???
Like this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 08-09-2004 12:16 PM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 29 (131959)
08-09-2004 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Jeannot
08-09-2004 2:23 PM


Re: ???
Like that. Way to go.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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custard
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 29 (188662)
02-26-2005 6:46 AM


not sure
Not sure if anyone wants to help resurrect this thread (arach, jar), but after doing some reading recently I find how woefully ignorant I am of the apocrypha, etc.
I was wondering if there were any good timeline maps or spreadsheets sort of showing which books were used when starting with the Torah?
For example, the first five books of the Torah were used by the Jews from when to when before additions/subtractions were made.
So what I'm looking for, or possibly what I'm interested in trying to construct, is sort of a visible timeline of who which books were being used by which groups at which times.
I assume the starting point would be the Torah? When were the subsequent OT books added? Were there any revisions/redactions before the Christians tacked on the gospels?

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4181 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 27 of 29 (188694)
02-26-2005 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
07-12-2004 12:31 PM


prometheus much?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2004 12:31 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4181 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 28 of 29 (188696)
02-26-2005 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
07-12-2004 12:31 PM


guh. repeat post. i hate.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 02-26-2005 11:58 AM

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 Message 1 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2004 12:31 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 29 (188709)
02-26-2005 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by custard
02-26-2005 6:46 AM


Timelines and content?
Not sure if anyone wants to help resurrect this thread (arach, jar), but after doing some reading recently I find how woefully ignorant I am of the apocrypha, etc.
So are many of us. It's really sad because a vast history is missing. We really know very little about the founding of Christianity. It's very much a mystery novel that ends without telling you who dunnit, and infact, only gives you hints of what was done.
For example, we know that Mary played a large and important role in the early church. But almost nothing has survived to tell us what part that was or why so little is known of it. We know that after the resurrection, a large body of Apostles were chosen and sent out. But that's all we know. We don't know their names, their missions or any results. Were Paul and Peter the only ones writing copious letters? Where are all the correspondence of the other Apostles?
I was wondering if there were any good timeline maps or spreadsheets sort of showing which books were used when starting with the Torah?
Unfortunately there are lots of them. The problem is that they often disagree and we are left to try to sort out the differences. But here are a couple good sources where you can start.
Start here for an overview of the World's Religions
and here for some books. While at this site be sure to read the Introduction to the First Book of Adam and Eve. It gives a marvelous insight to some of the problems inherent.
and this is a good introduction to the Kabbalah.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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