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Author Topic:   Islam does not hate christianity
joz
Inactive Member


Message 136 of 320 (188228)
02-24-2005 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by crashfrog
02-24-2005 5:45 PM


Re: Faith's good stuff!
Semite to the best of my knowledge is a tag applied to any group that claims descent from Abraham, the Hebrews through Isaac and Arabs through Ishmael, although the dictionary seems to disagree with me saying....
Semite Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
1)A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2)A Jew.
3)Bible. A descendant of Shem

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2005 5:45 PM crashfrog has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 137 of 320 (188233)
02-24-2005 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by crashfrog
02-24-2005 5:24 PM


Re: Faith's good stuff!
quote:
All the Israeli military actions are against terrorists and that helps Israel if the bad guys are eliminated, obviously.
Oh, really? Like that 12-year-old girl the Israelis machinegunned, just to watch her die? I'm supposed to believe she was the greatest criminal mastermind of the 21st century?
If you follow up on stuff like this you ALWAYS find out it's a lie. I remember this one but I don't remember the details so I will have to track it down again, as obviously nobody here cares to dig up the facts. Anything to put Israel in the wrong.
quote:
Or the American protestor they ran over with a bulldozer? I'm supposed to believe she was somehow harboring a terrorist arsenal? Where? In her handbag?
She was PROTECTING a terrorist arsenal that the bulldozers were sent to deal with although she may have been stupid enough not to realize it as the Palestinians probably deceived her. Or maybe she knew but was anti-Israel enough to want to cover for the terrorists. That's been happening a lot in this bizarre world we are living in. And it was an ACCIDENT for pete's sake. The driver couldn't see the girl. The idea that any Israeli would risk the kind of foul propaganda you guys believe is stupid in the first place. They know it's going to go against them even if they're squeaky clean, but you can bet they knock themselves out to BE squeaky clean just because of all the slanders and set-ups. People who believe this stuff need to WAKE UP!
quote:
It's really cool how you've circularly exonerated Israel; I'm amazed in the faith you must place in its leaders to simply assume that anyone who dies from an Israeli bullet was secretly a terrorist. How is it, though, that you decided which side to place your unwavering, unquestioning faith in? Did you flip a coin, or what?
I don't trust the media, and I've read up on the tactics of the Palestinians. I don't claim Israel is perfect, nobody is, but I know how the propaganda machine works. And now you've misrepresented me, par for the course in such discussions. Find where I said the only people KILLED have been terrorists.
quote:
Me, I think both sides are assholes, or have assholes among them, so don't you dare paint me as some kind of anti-semite Palestinian sympathizer
Well, you've bought the Palestinian propaganda so let's say you're naive and don't look into things very carefully.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2005 5:24 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Morte, posted 02-24-2005 6:34 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 147 by Jazzns, posted 02-24-2005 7:51 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 152 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2005 9:16 PM Faith has replied
 Message 166 by Jazzns, posted 02-25-2005 2:10 AM Faith has not replied

Firebird
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 320 (188241)
02-24-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
02-24-2005 2:08 PM


Re: Sources
Hi Jazzns and others
A source cited by Faith (no pun intended) is "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters. The link below comments on its credibility
http://www.serendipity.li/zionism/joan_peters.htm

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 2:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Jazzns, posted 02-24-2005 6:17 PM Firebird has not replied
 Message 148 by Jazzns, posted 02-24-2005 7:52 PM Firebird has not replied
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 02-25-2005 12:39 AM Firebird has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 139 of 320 (188242)
02-24-2005 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
02-24-2005 12:18 PM


Hi,
and no other religion has prophets.
Surely you know that this is incorrect!
Judaism has prophets.
Christianity has prophets.
Muhammad, prophect of Islam.
Sikhism, Guru Nanak was a prophet.
Moronism, Joseph Smith was a prophet.
In fact, all theistic religions must have had prophets.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 12:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Faith, posted 02-26-2005 7:52 PM Brian has not replied

Morte
Member (Idle past 6103 days)
Posts: 140
From: Texas
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 140 of 320 (188244)
02-24-2005 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
02-24-2005 12:18 PM


Somebody's just CLAIMING that God said this or that is suspicious up front. That's basically all Mohammed did as a matter of fact since he was the ONLY "witness" to the "revelations" of "Gabriel." But the Bible is the record of 2000 years of dealings by God with a specific people told in specific events through the eyes of different writers -- multiple witnesses over time. Most of it is a historical narrative designed to present the claims of God to humanity. In other words the evidence for His existence and His character is thoroughly documented.
But increasing the number of "somebody"s does not equal evidence. The slaughter mandated by God #1 is not any better than the slaughter mandated by God #2 just because more people claim that He mandated it or that He is a just God, or because more supported such a story later in time. Despite how many people claim (in court) that God told them to do something today, very rarely are they believed. Why is that? Because each one is only a single person? Is there credibility in numbers?
I notice that you have quotations around the word "witness" in regards to Mohammed but not to the "witnesses" of biblical events. Do you think if any person claimed, today, that God had spoken to them or an acquaintance (to order, for example, the destruction of a people), he or she would be believed? If a great number of people made the same claim, would they be believed? If not, why not, and why is such a standard not extended to the biblical "witnesses"?
Will respond to the rest of the post, but not here where it's off-topic. Posting a response in the 1 Samuel 15 and justice thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 12:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 02-26-2005 8:05 PM Morte has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 141 of 320 (188246)
02-24-2005 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
02-24-2005 2:08 PM


Re: Not more of the Palestinians don't exist stuff...
Their suffering would stop instantaneously if they cracked down on terrorism among them.
Or in other words, if they just went ahead and accepted their oppressive occupation then they won't be killed. Did you know that most of my cousins were not ALLOWED to go to school for many years. Why is that Faith? Was keeping children from being educated helping to stop terrorism? This is not propaganda, this is what actually happens from the mouths of people who live there, people I know.
Uh huh, and the houses are arsenals or covers for terrorist tunnels. That's always left out as they are presented as just houses. They aren't. And it is they who put their own people in harm's way by putting arsenals in civilian neighborhoods in the first place.
Yea. All them hundreds upon hundreds of houses are ALL terrorists weaponse caches and tunnels. Yea right!
However, Israel is very careful about civilians. All the Israeli military actions are against terrorists and that helps Israel if the bad guys are eliminated, obviously.
You must have missed the part of my story where my family was attacked by Israeli soldiers for no reason. Would you like to repeat your claim that "All the Israeli military actions are against terrorists?" Are you calling my family terrorists?
Yes they are unreasonable. That's all political propaganda you are believing. They are the aggressors, Israel is defending itself. They won't deal with their terrorists so Israel deals with them. I know that goes against political correctness but it is the truth.
Not it is not political propaganda! It is the direct experience of people I know! Innocent Palestinians have been killed or made homeless far more than "terrorists" in the guise of protecting Israel. Thousands of families are homeless in refugee camps. How is making families homeless helping to protect Israel? Were they ALL hording terrorists? You have a hard position to support.
Which is not the case. There is no slaughter. THe military actions are purely self defense, perfectly legal and reasonable actions to keep their people safe from suicide bombers and even then they get through.
Explain to me how shooting children, burning crops, destroying trees, destroying massive quantities of homes is "self-defense". In order for your position to have any merit nearly 50% of all Palestinians must be active terrorists.
You haven't proved it so you've defeated nothing. I can find more evidence if necessary. All you have is your own personal claim.
Actually I have. I am a decendent of a native Palestinian. Therefore there is such a thing as a Palestinian People. Therefore your position is defeated. The end.
This is not so. That is a false moral equivalence. The Palestinians are committing murder, the Israelis are defending themselves. The whole romance of freedom fighters is a lie.
No one is talking about the romance of a freedom fighter. I agree that people who suicide bomb themselves on a bus full of civilians are murderers. But so also are soldiers who bulldoze a house within a person in it who cannot get out. So are soldiers who shoot innocent civilians.
That's a lie too. They are very careful of the civilians. And blame the Palestinians for the occasional accident for cleverly putting their arsenals in civilian neighborhoods which no decent honorable society has ever done.
Do you really want to take the position that things like this have not happened perpetrated by the Israeli army?
Also, explain to me how hundreds upon hundreds of homes, farms, crops, etc were ALL "aresenals" of terrorists. All of them? Really?
I don't know the reasons for every action, but you are judging from effects and not bothering to learn causes. That's unfair.
Unfair! What cause!?!?! My family was just trying to make a living by farming and picking olives like they have done for generations!!! This way of live was destroyed for NO REASON! They did nothing! No one in my family has ever raised a hand to an Israeli and never will! NOT BEING FAIR!!! WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
Let me paint a different picture for you. Lets say the government goes over to your house, blows up your car, steals all your money, and gets you fired from your job for absolution no reason. You did nothing to provoke it. Its this fair?
Not bother to learn the causes? You tell me the causes Faith? Please tell me why my family was attacked. This should be good.
Only according to the propaganda. You refuse to hear the other side of the story.
No I hear it. I hear someone denying that attrocities occur toward Palestinians. Then I listen to actual Palestinians that I know and they tell a different story of things that have actually happened to them. Then I watch the news and see that stuff like this is happening. Then I pick the side that I believe the most. The side the corresponds to reality.
See above. How can I be expected to justify the individual case? You defend the general Palestinian propaganda, that's all I know.
I am defending actual events that have occurred to people I know who are family. I am not defending anyones propoganda.
How can you justify the individual case? Maybe you missed the point of the rhetorical question. The point is bad stuff is happening to Palestinians BY Israelis for no reason. This is a fact.
BS. Pure BS. They've made agreements in times of peace and broken the peace themselves.
Yea. And they are the only ones. Sure...
I'm sorry but it is you who are misinformed and unwilling to hear the other side of the story.
I hear it just fine Faith. I just know that very little of it is true from direct observation.
This message has been edited by Jazzns, 02-24-2005 18:13 AM

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 2:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 02-27-2005 3:18 PM Jazzns has replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 142 of 320 (188247)
02-24-2005 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Firebird
02-24-2005 6:04 PM


Re: Sources
Yea. I figured as much. This isn't the first time I have had conversations like this and the sources are always the same.
And here I am being accused of pushing propaganda. SHEESH!

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Firebird, posted 02-24-2005 6:04 PM Firebird has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 143 of 320 (188248)
02-24-2005 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
02-24-2005 2:50 PM


Re: ...and the hatred lives on...
So are you going to retract you claim or not? You could actually...you know....respond to the post instead of casually dismiss something that pretty much destroys your argument.

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 2:50 PM Faith has not replied

custard
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 320 (188249)
02-24-2005 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
02-24-2005 11:47 AM


Re: ...and the hatred lives on...
The Arabs refused the resolution, so there is no Palestinian state.
So what? They were still recognized as a group of people. The reason the Palestinians essentially boycotted the resolution was because they did not want part of their country to be lopped off and handed over to the Zionists for a Jewish state.
If anything, their boycott in 1947 demonstrated that they believed they had legitimate rights to the ENTIRE region of Palestine, not because they didn't see themselves as a distinct group.
Read this please lhttp://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html] on the UN website.
Your argument flies in the face of what the United Nations has recognized since 1948: Palestinian Arabs are a disctinct group of people who are entitled to self-determination as a nation-state.
quote:
1- After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947).
2- In the 1967 war, Israel occupied the remaining territory of Palestine, until then under Jordanian and Egyptian control (the West Bank and Gaza Strip). This included the remaining part of Jerusalem, which was subsequently annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had occupied in the 1967 conflict.
3-In 1974, the General Assembly reaffirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty, and to return.
Furthermore, how you think you can legitimately argue that there was no such thing as a 'Palestinian' before 1967 with someone who IS a Palestinian, Jazzn, is frightfully shocking to me.
My personal experience is that the rest of the Arab world has no difficulty viewing and identifying Palestinians as a distinct group within the Arab world. I spent a lot of time in the Persian Gulf region, and it is pretty easy to distinguish Palestinians from Kuwaitis, Saudis, and other Khaliji arabs because Palestinians often dress differently and speak differently.
If the UN, other Arab countries, and the Palestinians themselves see themselves as a distinct group how can you possibly argue they are not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 11:47 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Jazzns, posted 02-24-2005 8:03 PM custard has replied

Morte
Member (Idle past 6103 days)
Posts: 140
From: Texas
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 145 of 320 (188251)
02-24-2005 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Faith
02-24-2005 5:56 PM


Re: Faith's good stuff!
crashfrog:
Oh, really? Like that 12-year-old girl the Israelis machinegunned, just to watch her die? I'm supposed to believe she was the greatest criminal mastermind of the 21st century?
Faith:
If you follow up on stuff like this you ALWAYS find out it's a lie. I remember this one but I don't remember the details so I will have to track it down again, as obviously nobody here cares to dig up the facts. Anything to put Israel in the wrong.
A citation on either side would be appreciated.
And just because one points out an atrocity committed by Israelis doesn't mean they are looking for "anything to put Israel in the wrong" - just as your saying that all the Israeli military actions are against terrorists doesn't mean that you are looking for "anything to put Israel in the right". Unless, of course, you're saying that you would refuse to believe it if it could be demonstrated that an innocent civilian were a victim of Israel's military actions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 5:56 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2005 9:22 PM Morte has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 146 of 320 (188267)
02-24-2005 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
02-23-2005 1:07 AM


Re: Islam is the enemy of all nonMuslims
The more of your posts I read the more ignorance of other faiths I find.
even confuses Mary the mother of Jesus with Miriam the sister of Moses.
Good God man, what is the Hebrew equivalent of the name Mary?
You should treble check everything you say as most of it is inaccurate.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-23-2005 1:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Jazzns, posted 02-24-2005 8:10 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 186 by Faith, posted 02-25-2005 1:19 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 02-25-2005 1:47 PM Brian has replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 147 of 320 (188268)
02-24-2005 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Faith
02-24-2005 5:56 PM


Re: Faith's good stuff!
I don't trust the media, and I've read up on the tactics of the Palestinians.
What exactly were the 'tactics' of my crippled Grandfather that caused him to deserve to loose his farm?
I don't claim Israel is perfect, nobody is, but I know how the propaganda machine works.
Yes you seem to be very much indoctrinated in the propaganda machine. Unlike some of us who speak from personal experience and reality.
And now you've misrepresented me, par for the course in such discussions.
Lets recap what you have done thus far:
1. You belittled and misrepresented the faith of most of my family.
2. You have belittled and misrepresented my ethnicity.
3. You have belittled and questioned my intelligence.
Maybe now you can start to see why I get a little "emotional" when I post.
Find where I said the only people KILLED have been terrorists.
How about this:
Faith previously writes:
All the Israeli military actions are against terrorists and that helps Israel if the bad guys are eliminated, obviously.

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Faith, posted 02-24-2005 5:56 PM Faith has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 148 of 320 (188269)
02-24-2005 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Firebird
02-24-2005 6:04 PM


Re: Sources
Thanks for the help by the way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Firebird, posted 02-24-2005 6:04 PM Firebird has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 149 of 320 (188270)
02-24-2005 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by custard
02-24-2005 6:22 PM


Re: ...and the hatred lives on...
Furthermore, how you think you can legitimately argue that there was no such thing as a 'Palestinian' before 1967 with someone who IS a Palestinian, Jazzn, is frightfully shocking to me.
The sick thing is, it is not just an isolated case. I actually have to deal with this a lot!
In person it is often quite embarassing for the person trying to make the claim too. I was born and raised in America so I don't look like your steryotypical Arab. Plus I live in a region dominated by Hispanics so I just blend right in. Then I hear people, often Christians, start talking to me about how Palestinians don't exist. I usually let them stick their foot in their mouth a little further before I let them know that they are actually speaking to one. One who even shares their faith! Man that suprises them!
I have had an experience where someone was totally shocked to find out that my family had lived there for as long as they have. They actually believed it when someone told them that the entire region was empty before the Zionists got there. Aparrently, no one was sweeping the streets in front of the Dome of the Rock for quite some time...
My personal experience is that the rest of the Arab world has no difficulty viewing and identifying Palestinians as a distinct group within the Arab world. I spent a lot of time in the Persian Gulf region, and it is pretty easy to distinguish Palestinians from Kuwaitis, Saudis, and other Khaliji arabs because Palestinians often dress differently and speak differently.
Embarassingly enough, I have heard some Arabs call Palestinians the hicks of the Arab world. They liken the Palestinian dialect to the lazy english of the deep south. Plus we were mostly poor farmers. In general better educated I think but hick like nontheless.

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by custard, posted 02-24-2005 6:22 PM custard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by custard, posted 02-24-2005 8:16 PM Jazzns has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 150 of 320 (188271)
02-24-2005 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Brian
02-24-2005 7:50 PM


Re: Islam is the enemy of all nonMuslims
The next thing you will hear is that they don't believe in Jesus but this other weird guy called Isa who did miracles and stuff...
Oh yea...and it is okay to call God Dios in languages like Spanish but Allah is not the same as the Christian God, its different. That one is fun too.
I need to go play some pool with some of my friends to help restore my faith in at least some of my fellow Americans and Christians. I trust you all can hold the fort!

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Brian, posted 02-24-2005 7:50 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 02-27-2005 5:55 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 02-27-2005 6:23 PM Jazzns has replied

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