If push came to angonising torture.......

Back in the ‘good old days’ when religion really did rule the roost and the inquisition was active you had to be a good god fearing Christian or else (that is, in the lands that the inquisition had in it’s grip). I have recently seen an exhibition of torture equipment of that time and it can be summed up in one word; Grim.So a question to all us ‘heretic’ atheists out thereIf the world was to collapse back to a state where church rule was as absolute as it was back then and torture was likely if not inevitable for not being demonstrability a good church going, god fearing Christian, would you stand firm to your heretic secular beliefs or cave and toe the line to avoid the painful disfiguring, crippling, and most assuredly lethal punishments?I guess we can also swing a hypothetical scenario (one far less credible, than the one above) towards the religious among us.Imagine the middle ages are here again but instead Science ruled the land, hearts and minds rather than the church. Belief in the divine or superstitious was not permitted, nor was any attempt to suggest that there was anything divine at work in nature. Regular attendance at public seminars and lectures on the latest discoveries was mandatory. This being an enlightened ‘dark ages’ the torture devices are even better than the ones than those that could have been devised by the religios. In short refusal to denounce your delusions of the divine would be met with a short but informative demonstration of physical principals and human biology. Imagine yourself in this world and know you believe 100% in God. You get caught praying to him and you are put to the experiment. Do you recant or hold firm ( till your arms are twisted from their sockets, and beyond)Personally, I don’t know it I would have the guts to hold true to my views (mainly ‘cause I want to keep the guts I do have) but one small moment of pride and rebellion was standing in the chief inquisitors tribunal room in the Inquisition’s palace on Malta ( having been through the exhibition) and standing in front of the desk (admittedly it was unmanned.) and firmly told the church where to goNote to Admins: one for faith and belief or coffee house?

I attend the church weddings of friends for one reason and one reason only; for them. I don’t pray (I don’t even lower my head), and I don’t sing. I try to keep my participation to a minimum. The good thing is they understand this ( I have good friends).I personally would not get married in a church or and religious establishment. Hypocrisy is one thing, but starting a life long promise and joining like that on a lie is something I couldn’t do.those whom god has joined. As I don’t believe god exists, what meaning or authority can those words possibly have for me? What are the implications on me and my marriage, if the joiner doesn’t exist does the marriage? Anyway, that’s just me.When at home over Christmas I don’t celebrate it I don’t decorate and all that, but when I’m at family for Christmas I partake of the gift giving but wouldn’t go to church for mass. My mom don’t like it. She says It’s more of a secular commercial thing these days as If I would take that at face value (even from mother).Currently trying to wean my self of saying bless you when someone sneezes, but I guess that’s so ingrained it’s gonna be hard.--Edit-- to add two paragraphs ("I personally..." and "...those whom..")--This message has been edited by ohnhai, 24 February 2005 10:01 AM

You mis-understand, the sci-ocracy had been around for generations and is the socially accepted norm. you would not have come in to this world knowing god, nor would your family likely to be religious and your self if you did would likely have come to god at a much later point in your life. Theism would have been as new and dangerous a thing as being a heretic in the real dark ages. why would you go around robotic like? Do you feel it’s impossible for anger, hate, joy, happiness and love to exist outside a belief in god? That a lack of belief would some how Vulcan-ise society?This message has been edited by ohnhai, 24 February 2005 10:01 AM

Oh, I’m not doing it simply to be polite. I truly want to be there for them on their big day. I want to witness their marriage, so I stand there ,pay no heed to any preaching, I don’t pray or sing. Where it gets difficult for me are funerals and memorial services.As to Chrimbo decorations. Yes I’m also aware of the original religions and concepts surrounding those traditions, and as I don’t believe in god or gods or the divine in general then all religious practices are as bogus as all the others to sort of quote the character Ash from the epic tome Ash: A Secret History; I’m an equal opportunity heretic. I think they are ALL talking out their asses.--edit--corrected poor phrasing that could have lead people to reach wrong conclusions in regard to my reactions to funerals... --This message has been edited by ohnhai, 24 February 2005 15:39 AM

one to be put to The Experiment if ever there was one...So I take it you wouldnt be in the mood to recant?