An atheist who is not so keen on God

Yep.

Okay, summary of agreement to this point.We agree that helping others is a good way to live. We agree that the scientific method is a good test of reality.Now we begin to speculate a little.Assume for a moment that I am right and when someone dies they actually come face to face with GOD. Secondly, please assume for a second that this GOD really is the one that intuitively understands the relationship between gravity and the other forces, that imagined this universe into existence, that created Evolution as a way for life to be self healing. This really is GOD.Further, let's imagine for a second that this GOD is as I believe, one that is consistent and not simply arbitrary, one who is honest and not Loki.The person who died was an Atheist who did not believe in GOD, but did try to live by helping others and does accept the Scientific Method. He is now faced with rather conclusive evidence that GOD does exist.Will he abandon the Scientific Method and hold on to his non-belief in the face of irrefutable evidence?Would the GOD I describe damn someone who acted appropriately and simply denied GOD's existence?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No, I don't think he would The God you describe wouldn't, no.Brian.

Okay. Let's go back to the original post and the addendum.You said... Remember, I am not asking you to believe in GOD, only trying to address whether or not it is possible for an Atheist to love GOD without professing or acknowledging a love of GOD.Would GOD say that the Aethist who spent his whole life denying GOD's existence had in reality been loving GOD through his actions?By the way, have you read the Narnia books?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This particular GOD would say so.

Great, because I'm pretty sure that's HIM. In fact I'm counting on it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, I hope your right, you deserve to be.Oh, and I haven't read the Narnia books, but I do have 1500 posts!!!!!!!Cheers.brian.

If you get a chance, please read them. They are short and entertaining. In particular, the issue we have been discussing is brought up in the final book, The Last Battle. It will at the least show that I am not the only one holding such a position.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I promise I will.Thanks for giving up a lot of your Sunday, I appreciate it.Brian.

What could be a more appropriate way to spend Sunday than talking about GOD. I thank you for granting me an opportunity and platform to speak about a dear friend. And please let me know what you think of the Narnia Series once you've read them.Sincerely, I hope for everyone's sake I am right in my beliefs.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar writes:

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If doing good things, even small little insignificant things count as expressing love, if doing for the least of them is the same as doing it directly for jesus, then would that not be true across the board?

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Why would the acts of kindness and just consideration of a professing believer be counted more worthy than the same acts when performed by an atheist?

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The problem is that this presupposes the divinity of Jesus and thus is a circular argument. It equates "love" with "Jesus" and "god" and thus anything that anybody anywhere does is for Jesus and god if it is done with love.But that's assuming what you're trying to establish. You need to prove that things done out of love are necessarily done for Jesus even if the person doing it doesn't know it. You need to show that a person can't do anything without Jesus or god entering into the equation.Is there nothing that is distinct and separate from god?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

jar writes:

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The person who died was an Atheist who did not believe in GOD, but did try to live by helping others and does accept the Scientific Method. He is now faced with rather conclusive evidence that GOD does exist.

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Will he abandon the Scientific Method and hold on to his non-belief in the face of irrefutable evidence?

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Huh?How does someone who is presented with direct evidence coming to accept the results of that direct evidence get described as "abandoning the scientific method"?Were physicists "abandoning scientific method" when Newtonian kinematics was replaced with Einsteinian? Or perhaps the reason why the description of kinematics was shifted because of the scientific method?What you have said is that god is allowing himself to be put inside the box and poked, prodded, and tested. In other words, he is allowing himself to be subjected to scientific inquiry.So why on earth would someone who follows scientific inquiry suddenly abandon it when god starts playing by those rules?

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Would the GOD I describe damn someone who acted appropriately and simply denied GOD's existence?

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Dunno. It begs the question of why Jesus needed to die.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Well, I am a Christian and I do presuppose the divinity of Jesus. LOL. I don't think so. What I believe I need to show is that GOD wants folk to help others, to do the right thing. If that's what GOD wants then whether the person is doing it for GOD or just because it's the right thing to do, it works. Asking me, as a Christian? No, of course not.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar responds to me:

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Well, I am a Christian and I do presuppose the divinity of Jesus. LOL.

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Of course, but it is a presupposition and thus cannot be applied to atheists. Any insistence that your vision of the world is necessarily the right one necessarily denies the existence of the atheist.

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You need to prove that things done out of love are necessarily done for Jesus even if the person doing it doesn't know it.

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I don't think so.

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I do. When was it agreed that god is love? Again, you presuppose the existence of your god, define him as you wish, and then derive the action of that definition as proof of the existence. Circular argument.

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What I believe I need to show is that GOD wants folk to help others, to do the right thing.

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But the atheist doesn't care. Therefore, this desire of your is irrelevant to the question of whether or not an atheist is "loving god" when he helps other since he does not believe in the existence of god.If you and I both want me to do the same thing but I have absolutely no connection to you and come to the conclusion to do it completely on my own, how am I possibly carrying out your desires? You didn't enter into it. You are completely outside the system. You may agree with what I've done, but you can claim absolutely no part of it.You are trying to say that when a person does something good, it's because of god. Congratulations, jar...you just did away with free will.Is there anything that is separate and distinct from god?

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Is there nothing that is distinct and separate from god?

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Asking me, as a Christian? No, of course not.

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Congratulations. You just did away with free will. This isn't me writing this message to you. It's god. And it isn't you reading it. It's god. The entire universe becomes nothing more than god playing with himself.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Okay. LOL

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion