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Author Topic:   The Subject of Abstinence
IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4437 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 1 of 9 (184820)
02-13-2005 7:54 AM


Hey all,
In another thread, a discussion started up about teaching abstinence from sex. (As I recall, RiverRat started it in RAZD's "Legal Death, Legal Life and Abortion" topic.)
In that thread, Crashfrog stated that teaching abstinence caused the rates of teenage pregnancy and STD's to rise rather than fall. He, of course, has to back up that claim and I hope he does so in this thread.
My own opinion is that teaching abstinence is not especially useful to responsible sex education. A very knowledgeable friend of mine once said "A human being who cannot express themselves sexually will eventually commit suicide". Although that is an extreme view, I have to agree in principle; constant abstinence is entirely unhealthy. I believe that the problem of paedophilia currently faced by the Catholic Church in Ireland stems in part from the priests' vow of celibacy; i.e. that their abstinence from sex, for some at least, is simply too much to handle.
I think the notion of abstinence stems in some part from the Christian idea of sex being bad or sinful, and many of the problems in providing responsible sex education derive from how deeply this idea is ingrained in Western society.
So, the topic: why abstinence is good/bad, its origins and its consequences. Should it be taught, even in conjunction with other types of sex education?
(In particular I'd like holmes to join in this topic, if possible. His input would be very valuable.)
I'll leave this for one of the other admins to promote. I have to log off and go to work.
The Rockhound

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by coffee_addict, posted 02-13-2005 12:07 PM IrishRockhound has not replied
 Message 4 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 02-13-2005 12:29 PM IrishRockhound has not replied
 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 02-13-2005 1:44 PM IrishRockhound has not replied
 Message 6 by Silent H, posted 02-13-2005 7:44 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 9 (184877)
02-13-2005 11:50 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 9 (184878)
02-13-2005 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
02-13-2005 7:54 AM


Why only teach abstinence when you can teach abstinence plus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 02-13-2005 7:54 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 9 (184882)
02-13-2005 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
02-13-2005 7:54 AM


Kids are going to have sex no matter what we teach them, it is just natural. The kids that have had the education will be more likely to wear protection and use birth control than those kids that have no idea what they are doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 02-13-2005 7:54 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 5 of 9 (184894)
02-13-2005 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
02-13-2005 7:54 AM


Here in the great state of Texas, kids apparently really like to do the horizontal bop no matter what teacher says:
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos
And the programs being used are themselves sometimes pretty dodgy:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...ticles/A26623-2004Dec1.html
says:
Many American youngsters participating in federally funded abstinence-only programs have been taught over the past three years that abortion can lead to sterility and suicide, that half the gay male teenagers in the United States have tested positive for the AIDS virus, and that touching a person's genitals "can result in pregnancy," a congressional staff analysis has found.
Ugh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 02-13-2005 7:54 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 6 of 9 (184968)
02-13-2005 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
02-13-2005 7:54 AM


In particular I'd like holmes to join in this topic, if possible. His input would be very valuable.
Wow, thanks. I just got finished with a huge, and well detailed post regarding a sexual subject thread (Science vs Morality... in the Coffee House), and so I am sort of zonked.
Here is what I will say for now.
I have heard that there have been cases where abstinence education has left people hurting. That is to say with all of the preparation to do nothing, by the time the people got married and needed good info, they were clueless and made bad choices.
Sex health education is useful whether you are going to wait to have sex within marriage, or not. Abstinence education does not save one from anything (except possible moral harm) whether you have sex now, or wait until marriage.
Thus to me whether the urban myths of screwed up married people is true or not, I do not see the benefit of abstinence education (indeed how much education do you need beyond "say no"), whereas I see a lot of benefits to sex health education for any person of any culture.
I may have more to say tomorrow when I am less groggy.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
"...don't believe I'm taken in by stories I have heard, I just read the Daily News and swear by every word.."(Steely Dan)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 02-13-2005 7:54 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Jazzns, posted 02-14-2005 5:04 PM Silent H has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 7 of 9 (185230)
02-14-2005 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Silent H
02-13-2005 7:44 PM


Abstinence in New Mexico
I live in a locale that unfortunatly has been blasted with an "Abstinence Awareness" campaign sponsored by the state Dept of Health. Certainly it looks like a massive waste of taxpayer dollars when the "Abstinence: Mission Possible" commercial appears immediatly followed by a Trojan condom commercial (now they heat on contact!). This of course is in stark contrast to the absolutly impotent (pun) state of the current health education portion of the public school district.
I always wonder how much safe sex education training a teacher could get for the cost of the huge billboard depicting the evils of premarital sex I see every time I leave work. I also begin to wonder when parents stoped becoming responsible for educating their children about real life. It just seems like there is way to many people who expect to give the birds and bees talk right before their "baby" walks down the isle.
Enough ranting. I just wish the government would give me the option to burn the money I give in taxes that normally goes to empty and fruitless public service programs. It certainly would get more peoples attention than the billboards.

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Silent H, posted 02-13-2005 7:44 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Silent H, posted 02-14-2005 5:57 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 8 of 9 (185256)
02-14-2005 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jazzns
02-14-2005 5:04 PM


Re: Abstinence in New Mexico
Actually I just thought of a great abstinence campaign that could be run state by state and actually make money. Start spreading the word, and back it with a couple of fake government studies, showing that people who don't have sex are more likely to win the lottery (not necessarily the big prize, but something).
Combine that with additional "information" that for people with kids, when the kids do not have sex they are more likely to win the lottery.
One could of course even allow kids to play lottery at that point. Kids lotto, don't risk sex when you could win a million dollars instead!

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
"...don't believe I'm taken in by stories I have heard, I just read the Daily News and swear by every word.."(Steely Dan)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Jazzns, posted 02-14-2005 5:04 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Jazzns, posted 02-15-2005 9:48 AM Silent H has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 9 of 9 (185491)
02-15-2005 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Silent H
02-14-2005 5:57 PM


Re: Abstinence in New Mexico
Oh man. That would be like....10 TIMES more effective than what they are doing now. Then again, anything times 0 = ...
... a bad joke.
Now if they somehow could verify celibacy and gave you a lottery ticket for each month you are sex-free then THAT would be an incentive. Then again we may just see the tech market dissappear overnight as nerd after nerd becomes rich and retires at the age of 17.

By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Silent H, posted 02-14-2005 5:57 PM Silent H has not replied

  
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