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Author Topic:   God's gender
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 29 (175289)
01-09-2005 5:00 PM


Seriously Now
God of the Hebrew Bible is masculine because the priests who defined and dictated the authorized version of the dogma had defeated the priests and priestesses who included the Canaanite goddess Asherah (Ishtar), consort of El Shaddai, broken down the Asherah poles, pulverized the goddess's altars, and otherwise banished the pagan, dual-diety sectarians. (See Hezekiah and Josiah stories.)

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 01-10-2005 3:25 AM Abshalom has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 17 of 29 (175396)
01-10-2005 3:09 AM


Of course God is a 'He'. You ever hear of a female mass killer? Might have something to do with that 'Nature versus nurture' thingy.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 18 of 29 (175399)
01-10-2005 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Abshalom
01-09-2005 5:00 PM


Re: Seriously Now
God of the Hebrew Bible is masculine because the priests who defined and dictated the authorized version of the dogma had defeated the priests and priestesses who included the Canaanite goddess Asherah (Ishtar),
but they failed to totally remove traditions.
for instance, the book of esther:
esther = ishtar
mordechai = marduk.
i'm interested in information on ishtar's relationship to el. i've heard of later thoughts of god having a female partner, and some relation to shekinah, but i'm rather unfamiliar in this area.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Abshalom, posted 01-09-2005 5:00 PM Abshalom has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Nighttrain, posted 01-11-2005 9:13 PM arachnophilia has not replied
 Message 24 by Abshalom, posted 01-12-2005 2:21 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 19 of 29 (175402)
01-10-2005 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by General Nazort
01-08-2005 6:19 PM


God has no gender. The word "he" is used to describe God because the relationship of God to humans is like that of father to son, and "he" is the human word used for fathers.
quote:
Isaiah 66:12-13
For thus said the LORD:
"I will extend to her [Jerusalem]
Prosperity like a stream
The wealth of nations
Like a wadi in flood;
And you shall drink of it.
You shall be carried on shoulders
and dandled upon knees.
As a mother comforts her son,
So I will comfort you;

You shall find comfort in Jerusalem..."
there are a few instances that portray god as a mother.
Just because there is no word to describe what God is does not mean he is limited by the words we do use to describe him.
agreed, but i think that the reason god is portrayed more often as male has to do with neither god's actual gender, or a lack of words to describe god. it probably has to do more with the society that wrote the bible: who did most of the writing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by General Nazort, posted 01-08-2005 6:19 PM General Nazort has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by General Nazort, posted 01-12-2005 12:36 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
Thor
Member (Idle past 5910 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 20 of 29 (175659)
01-10-2005 9:38 PM


Thanks
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this matter, I appreciate your input. Sorry for my delay in responding, I am not blessed with a lot of spare time.
You have answered my questions sufficiently, so I’m afraid I don’t have much to add on this particular topic. However, a biblical quote used by Tal back in message 9 has brought another question to mind, off-topic, that may be worthy of some serious discussion. I have addressed this in a new topic called ‘Missing Sea Creatures’.
Cheers.

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 21 of 29 (176011)
01-11-2005 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by arachnophilia
01-10-2005 3:25 AM


Re: Seriously Now
Whole new thread(or several), Arach, if you get into Shekinah.

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 22 of 29 (176017)
01-11-2005 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Nighttrain
01-10-2005 3:09 AM


quote:
Of course God is a 'He'. You ever hear of a female mass killer?Of course God is a 'He'. You ever hear of a female mass killer? Might have something to do with that 'Nature versus nurture' thingy.
Yep.
"Mother Nature".
quote:
Might have something to do with that 'Nature versus nurture' thingy.
Oh, that is so true!

This message is a reply to:
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General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 29 (176250)
01-12-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by arachnophilia
01-10-2005 3:36 AM


there are a few instances that portray god as a mother.
True, but overwhelmingly the primary potrayal is a father figure.
agreed, but i think that the reason god is portrayed more often as male has to do with neither god's actual gender, or a lack of words to describe god. it probably has to do more with the society that wrote the bible: who did most of the writing?
I disagree, since I believe the Bible is inspired by God and thus portrays God as he wanted to be portrayed... as primarily a father figure, referred to by the word "he". If God was primarily revealed to be a mother figure the word "she" would most likely have been used... but in any case God still has no "gender," only a fatherness or motherness.

If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by arachnophilia, posted 01-10-2005 3:36 AM arachnophilia has replied

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Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 29 (176276)
01-12-2005 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by arachnophilia
01-10-2005 3:25 AM


Re: Seriously Now
Arachnophilia: You said, "I'm interested in information on ishtar's relationship to el. i've heard of later thoughts of god having a female partner, and some relation to shekinah, but i'm rather unfamiliar in this area."
Try this, only for starters:
Encyclopedia Mythica

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 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 01-10-2005 3:25 AM arachnophilia has not replied

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 Message 25 by Nighttrain, posted 01-12-2005 7:41 PM Abshalom has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 25 of 29 (176351)
01-12-2005 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Abshalom
01-12-2005 2:21 PM


Re: Seriously Now
Hi,Ab, here`s a better one on Shekinah,Eema,Et-Yhvh, Sophia, Virgin Mary, etc.
Seminary - Shekinah, Eema: God the Mother & Pneuma (feminine Holy Soul "Spirit")

This message is a reply to:
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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 26 of 29 (176532)
01-13-2005 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
01-05-2005 3:29 AM


it rains, doesn't it?

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 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 01-05-2005 3:29 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 29 (176866)
01-14-2005 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by General Nazort
01-12-2005 12:36 PM


True, but overwhelmingly the primary potrayal is a father figure.
i wasn't really debating that.
I disagree, since I believe the Bible is inspired by God and thus portrays God as he wanted to be portrayed...
then why is it inconsistent? why not ALL fathership verse and no mothers? why say we are made in the image of god -- male AND female?

This message is a reply to:
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Swift
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 29 (177453)
01-16-2005 1:41 AM


"He" is symbolic
He, when refering to God is symbolic to show God as mascaline or powerful. What would you think if God was called she or in symbolic terms feminine. He, does not rely mean an actual gender. And when he talks about mother and father that is also symbolic. Mothers and Fathers take care of there children and so does God. Also when it says we were created out of his image it means that he maid us so that we could make our own chocies and choose weather to sin or not sin.

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by nator, posted 01-27-2005 6:50 PM Swift has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 29 of 29 (181181)
01-27-2005 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Swift
01-16-2005 1:41 AM


Re: "He" is symbolic
quote:
He, when refering to God is symbolic to show God as mascaline or powerful. What would you think if God was called she or in symbolic terms feminine.
That God has the power to give life, or take it away, like nature.
What is more powerful than the power to create life?
The feminine is considered "weak" in patriarchal cultures, but not in matriarchal or egalitarian cultures.
quote:
He, does not rely mean an actual gender.
Uh, yeah it does.
Like "father" means a male parent.
If the Bible meant a non-gendered parental figure, it would have used the word for parent, not father.
quote:
And when he talks about mother and father that is also symbolic. Mothers and Fathers take care of there children and so does God.
But the word for Father is used to refer to God throughout most of the Bible, not parent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Swift, posted 01-16-2005 1:41 AM Swift has not replied

  
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