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Author Topic:   The Jesus Chronology
Eddy Pengelly
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Message 1 of 5 (164270)
12-01-2004 3:48 AM


This is a compiled general summary
The Christian Story
As an introduction to reading or studying The New Testament, we are told that the general religious history concerning Jesus (including his Life, Parables, and Miracles, plus his Ministry teachings, Crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection) is witnessed by the Four Gospels — Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John — all dated between 4BC and 30AD, and is affirmed in Paul’s letters dated between 48-67AD as he tells the world about Jesus Christ - the Son of God, and the authority of the Holy Spirit.
Other New Testament writers, James, Peter, Jude and John, also add to the collection of books, in around 50, 60, 80, and 85AD.
The New Testament therefore presents us with the Books written by these divinely inspired people in a chronological order, commencing with Matthew and ending with the Revelations of John dated to 95AD.
We are told that the four Gospel records exhibit the Lord in four different aspects, all of which contribute to the general revelation of God manifest in the flesh. The four accounts show that he rules (Matthew--the Lion), because he served (Mark--the Ox), and though he was flesh (Luke--the Man), he conquered through the spirit (John--the Eagle).
John shows Christ as being the divine manifestation of the Father.
We are told that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (who was the mother of God).
This was my understanding too, as I grew up and attended Religious Instruction at school.
But is it chronologically correct and historically accurate ?
I wish to present after some input by others, a list of know historical dates and events that conflict with the above 'religious' story of the chronology of Jesus.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 12-04-2004 6:53 PM Eddy Pengelly has not replied

  
AdminNosy
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Message 2 of 5 (164321)
12-01-2004 10:37 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 5 (165232)
12-04-2004 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eddy Pengelly
12-01-2004 3:48 AM


I have been given the following historical information by an Australian researcher to check, and the comments in (brackets) and the conclusions belong to him.
I have checked various religious and secular history books - and his quotes are accurate.
Date Story / Event
BC-AD There was an Oracle present in the Jerusalem Temple which the Hebrew priests consulted.
30 AD : The Jesus of Nazareth is said to have been crucified by Pontius Pilate. The Greek term 'Christian' identified the Nazarenes who followed the teachings of Jesus.
40-50 : News of the mysterious Q-Source document (from which the Gospels were drafted) first appeared around this time. Oral stories about Jesus being the expected Messiah spread around Palestine.
50-67 : Paul, a Roman citizen and scribe, wrote his letters. They take up over half of the New Testament.
67 : Christians were seen as separate from Jews by the Romans.
70AD : The Romans took the Hebrew Oracle parts from the Jerusalem Temple when they sacked it.
68-80 : Mark wrote his Gospel. He calls ‘Jesus’ the Son of God (Mark 1:1).
80-90 : Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language, and interpreted them as best he could and wrote his Gospel.
80-120 : Luke wrote his Gospel; and the Book of Acts. ( 200 verses from Matthew and Luke were compiled from the Oracle knowledge.)
c.90 : The bishop of Rome, Clement, modelled the Christian Church on the model of Greek city government.
(This was a man-made concept, introduced by a Roman; and therefore non-biblical.)
95-100 : John wrote his Gospel; and the Book of Revelations. In John 1:29 he beheld the Lamb of God; and in Revelations 5:1 he saw the book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
250 : A mixture of Egyptian and Greek philosophy, and pagan lore, stimulated the ‘Eucharistic’ rite. ‘Eucharist’ in Greek means ‘thanksgiving’.
(This rite of giving food and drink to a departed god was a previously existing practice of at least three other religions. An investigation of Luke 22:17-20 finds that there is an addition of words between verses 19 and 20 which brings this Gospel into line with the contemporary practices of the Church. The Roman Church wished to continue a 3,000 year old ancient Egyptian rite as part of its new religion.)
313 : Although Constantine, Emperor of the western Roman Empire, proclaimed freedom for all religions, he did not abandon his own faith in Apollo and the Unconquered Sun. The Roman Empire was persecuting the Jews because they would not worship their Gods. Constantine merged the 'old Roman ways' and the new 'Nazarene' movement into the beginning of the Roman Church. This amalgam of religions became the 'Christian' Church of Rome.
314 : The celebration of Easter on a Sunday was made obligatory by the synod of Arles.
321 : Saturday as the Sabbath was changed by Constantine to Sunday. The English name 'Sunday' is derived from the old pagan 'dies solis' which is the day consecrated to the Sun [god].
(This was a man-made concept, introduced by a Roman; and therefore non-biblical.)
325 : Constantine at Nicaea adopts a creed affirming that Jesus Christ is of the same substance as God, his father.
A Duality idea is created. (This was a man-made concept, introduced by a Roman; and therefore non-biblical.)
325 : The Alexandrian and Roman dating of Easter was imposed.
The Jewish date of Passover was replaced by the Sunday following the 14th Nisan (the Jewish first month).
336 : A calendar representing liturgical practices in Rome mentions December 25.
It was the day of the celebration of the Unconquered Sun (from the ancient Egyptian Sun God concept as worshipped by Emperor Constantine).
Now that the Roman Church was using the name Christ Jesus as it new God, the celebration of the Sun now became the celebration of the Son. The Christmas day celebration was created. (Note that the Church still has the [Egyptian] Sun-disk behind the head of Christ in its depictions.)
368 : The Bishop of Rome termed the word ‘Mass’. At a future council of Trent a new word was created; 'Transubstantiation'. In pagan lore the priests said that they had the power to change various oblations into the actual body and soul of the departed king or god. The Roman priests claimed they too have a power to pull Christ down from heaven, to repeat the cruxifiction, every time Mass is held.
(The Roman Church wished to continue an ancient rite as part of its new religion.)
379 : The next Roman Emperor, Theodosius I, restored the power of the Christian Church, giving it tax-exempt status. Then in 400 Local Roman administrators, exploiting their positions to obtain income, entered the Church's priesthood.
381 : The council of Constantinople declares that the Holy Ghost is of the same substance as the duality; God, and his son Jesus Christ. The Christian Trinity is now affirmed.
(This was a man-made concept, and is therefore non-biblical. Also an addition was made to the Greek Bible to confirm this new concept, and appears in the Latin Vulgate Bible in 1John 5:7-8.)
382 : Pope Damasus commissioned a 'standard Bible' to be written for the Roman Church in Latin. This was completed in c 405 AD as the 'Vulgate' and was confirmed by the Council of Trent in 1546. It was intended that only the Clergy were to read it.
405 : The Latin Vulgate Bible now included additional words (in 1John 5:7-8) that confirmed the Christian Trinity, although these words did not appear in any Greek Manuscript nor any New Testament translations.
420 : The Roman writer Augustine in his original Latin version of 'The City of God' indicates the Pope is the sun, the ruler of the universe, and that God granted the Pope the divine right as Jesus Christ on earth, to secretly control the population in every country through education, politics, economics and military might.
The word Pope in classic Greek means Father.
(This was a man-made concept, introduced by a Roman; and therefore non-biblical.)
431 : At the Ecumenical Council in Ephesus, Saint Cyril of Alexandria affirmed that the Virgin Mary is 'Theotokos', mother of God.
(This was a man-made concept, introduced by a man; and therefore non-biblical.)
593 : Pope Gregory I initiated the teaching of Purgatory as a temporary place of purification (suffering) for those who die as Roman Catholics. The council of Florence made this official in 1439. The Roman Institution had an emotional and spiritual hold over their members by telling them that if they did what ever their Priests said, they would get their souls out of purgatory.
(This was a man-made concept, introduced by a Pope; and therefore non-biblical.)
600 : Under Pope Gregory I the papacy became the supreme authority of the western Church. (The papacy created 600 years after 'the times of Jesus' has no biblical authority.)
787 : The Seventh Ecumenical Council at Nicaea depicted Christ and Saints as icons. (This type of Idolatry is a man-made concept, and therefore non-biblical.)
In fact, it completely disregards two Commandments; Thou shalt not make thee any graven image; and Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them. (Deuteronomy 5:8-9)
1095 : Pope Urban II proclaims the First Crusade to assert papal supremacy in the East as well as the West.
1140 : A Church law, authorized by the Pope, resolves conflicts between older Church documents and traditions by ignoring the discrepancies and the facts presented.
(This means that although the ancient documents do not support the practices of the current Church traditions, ie. they are not biblically based, the Pope continues with the man-made Doctrines etc. as if they were biblically based.)
In the 12th century
a) the image of Christ was changed from The Lord upright and majestic, clothed in purple and reigning from a tree; to a dying man on the crucifix.
b) A new position for praying was introduced; on knees with hands together.
c) Saint Francis began the making of a Christmas crib to illustrate the story of the Nativity.
(Why was the positive image of Christ made into a negative one? - To enhance Mary’s position in religion as the new person to worship. Why did the Church introduce the act of kneeling to pray ? - To show personal submission to the Church and its rituals.)
1302 : Pope Boniface VIII declared that the [Roman] Church was the supreme power on earth, and that kings and soldiers could go to war at the command of 'the priest' and for the sake of the Church. PAPAL policy was entangled with the need for the Roman Church to exploit the resources of the western Church.
1563 : The Council of Trent concluded. Catholicism was now reasserted through Papal authority.
Every heretical dogma of the Roman Church was reaffirmed and every belief upon which Protestantism was founded and for which countless martyrs gave their lives was rejected.
(As with the Church Law of 1140 the Papal system ignored the discrepancies and the facts presented.)
1611 : The King James Version Bible was produced, and included many of the 4th century Roman concepts and additions that were introduced into the Vulgate Bible.
1964 : It was finally admitted by the Catholic Biblical Commission that the words testifyin heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one"; 8-"And there are three that testify on earth:and the were an addition to 1John 5:7-8 in Jerome's Latin Bible, the 'Vulgate'.
They put forward the idea that it may have been based on the writer's memories due to the time lag between when Jesus spoke and when the gospels were written.
The original words of 1 John 5:7-8 were "For there are three that testify, the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."
The addition was not found in any Greek manuscript or New Testament translations prior to the 16th century, and was only found in the Roman Bible written since the 11th century.
This passage was called "the heavenly witnesses" and the addition became known as the Johannine Comma.
On page 1928 of the Eight Translation New Testament an account of a fourth century Spanish heretic producing these words, with Erasmus including them in a Greek manuscript, is cited.
Does this Historical data support the Religious version of history ?
NO. The portrayal of the books in the New Testament and their religious imagery allude to the chronology and Life of Jesus Christ, whereas the religious and historical facts tell a different story.
It was Paul (Saul, the Roman citizen) in the 50s AD who first wrote about the religious Jesus before the Hebrew Oracle was taken to Rome, and not the four Gospel writers as we have been lead to believe. This writer has authored over half of the New Testament books.
Why did a Roman citizen who was previously persecuting the Christians write over half of the Greek New Testament, before any other written accounts of ‘Jesus’ were given ?
The answer is that he was the first Roman person to write about his encounter with the Hebrew Oracle.
The Gospels of Matthew and Luke were influenced by the Hebrew Oracle.
Jesus (ben Joseph) was also influenced by the Hebrew Oracle in the Jerusalem Temple.
Paul was influenced by the Hebrew Oracle before it was taken from Palestine.
In the 90s John saw the book with seven seals, and the Lamb, after the Hebrew Oracle was taken to Rome.
So three Gospels (Matthew, Luke, John), the Book of Revelations, Paul’s letters, plus the teachings of Jeshua ben Joseph himself — the prophet ‘Jesus’, were influenced by the Hebrew Oracle.
That’s eighteen books of the New Testament (not including Acts and the three John books) that were influenced by the Hebrew Oracle (and also known as 'the Q-source').
The New Testament accounts relate to what the Hebrew Oracle was teaching in the Jerusalem Temple, but when the Romans stole it and from thereafter, they added their own bits and pieces of scripture, doctrines, and Church Laws to suit themselves, and "corrupted" the original teaching that Jesus (ben Joseph) was apparently telling the people of Palestine.
The various religious 'titles' for Jesus also emerged over a period of time.
Jeshua ben Joseph who taught in the Jerusalem Temple and who was killed in 30AD by the Romans, was given the status Son of God by Mark in ca. 70 AD, was identified as the Lamb of God in 95AD, and was raised to the status of equal God in 325 by Constantine.
This duality of ‘Jesus’ and the ‘Father’ then became equal with the Holy Spirit in 381 — thus a Trinity.
It was not until the Roman Vulgate Bible was written that the concept of the Trinity appeared in the ‘Christian Bible’.
The ‘mother of God’ - being the Virgin Mary concept, was not established until 431AD.
What about the Church and its Doctrines ?
The hierarchy of the Roman Christian Church’s internal structure was based upon the Greek government model, with later Roman administrators joining the Church as ‘priests’ to enhance their personal wealth and position.
Although accepting this new type of religion, the Roman Emperor Constantine still worshipped the Unconquered Sun as a god (as portrayed via the ancient Roman Oracle myths). Festivals for this god were held yearly on December 25th, and also for the rebirth of the Sun which included the ancient Eucharistic rites. The day of the Sun God was Sunday.
When Constantine raised the Messiah Jesus to god status, that title replaced that of the Sun God, but the days for the festivals remained the same. The Sun God festival was now called Christmas, but the Jewish date of Passover (for the yearly Eucharistic rite) was changed to the following Sunday.
Religious Historical facts show that Constantine made Jesus an equal part with God the Father (in 325 AD), and 1 John 5:7-8 was changed (in the Bible to confirm this idea).
Constantine decided that December 25th was his birthday, that Sunday was the Sabbath for this new religion, and changed the existing day of Easter (Passover) to the following Sunday.
The Christian festivals for Christmas, Easter, and the Sabbath are therefore NOT based upon original New Testament Scripture, but are man-made concepts made by a Roman Emperor.
The Bible itself shows that Saturday was the Sabbath (Luke 23:54-24:1), with Luke 17:19-20 possibly being changed to affirm the Eucharistic practices.
Next came the influences of the Popes. They had control of both the State and the Church.
The State title of ‘Pope’ replaced that of the Military ‘Roman Emperor’.
Pope Damasus commissioned the 'Vulgate' Bible to include the new Christian concepts.
(It was intended to be only read by the Clergy, as it contained the previously mentioned additions that affirmed the earlier Emperors’ religious ideas.)
Saint Cyril of Alexandria affirmed that Mary was the mother of God. Pope Gregory I initiated the teachings of Purgatory. (But the Mother of God idea, and the need to speak to her (and not Jesus) to gain entry to Purgatory are based upon ancient Egyptian concepts.)
Historical facts clearly show that these ideas were added to the Roman Religion five and six centuries after the Greek New Testament was written.
Summary
Based upon actual documented Historical and Religious Facts, Christianityis based upon the Greek and Roman interpretations of the Hebrew Oracle knowledge, and their subsequent associated religious practices that were developed and added over several centuries - after Jesus did his own teachings in Palestine.
Therefore, what we read in the Bible and the interpretations of its imagery and symbolism - is what the Catholic church has led us to believe.
To me it is obvious that the (ancient) Catholic Church and its Popes have a lot to answer for.
This is another reason why I am carefully studying the Bible, as what the history books say confirms his findings.
Eddy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 12-01-2004 3:48 AM Eddy Pengelly has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Nighttrain, posted 12-04-2004 10:04 PM Eddy Pengelly has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 4 of 5 (165258)
12-04-2004 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Eddy Pengelly
12-04-2004 6:53 PM


As Milton Berle said 'So much boloney, so little time.' Keep studying, Ed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Eddy Pengelly, posted 12-04-2004 6:53 PM Eddy Pengelly has not replied

  
Jon_the_Second
Member (Idle past 19811 days)
Posts: 33
From: London, UK
Joined: 11-07-2004


Message 5 of 5 (176497)
01-13-2005 8:53 AM


I suggest a look into Gnosticism and the Pagan Mysteries. this suggests the origins of the new testament lie in developed pagan myths and imagery. The gnostic christians also had a large number of extra gospels which seem to more along the line of the Pagan mysteries. Some scholars believe that the Roman Church was born out of the literalists who took the stories and imagery of Jesus to be historically true, when it was in fact just an analogy to aid initiates in their exploration to find their daemon and ultimately know god.

  
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