Claims of God Being Omnipotent in the Bible

Oh, I had no idea I was being asked for a concrete method of interpretation. I don't think there is one; not the kind most people look for, where you can just figure out what the Scriptures mean on this or that. Sounds like an awful thing to leave you subject to, but...

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...in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. - 1 Tim 3:15

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The Scriptures say that the pillar and support of the truth is the church, the household of God. I'm afraid that means the teaching of the apostles was that finding truth would be tied to men and "dogma," if that's what you want to call the teaching of the church.Paul said one time that there were people teaching in Corinth who were very proud of what they were teaching. Then he said, "When I come, I don't want to hear the words of the proud ones; I want to see their power" (1 Cor 4:19). Earlier, he had said that he didn't come with "words of man's wisdom," but in demonstration of Spirit and power.The subject, as far as I can tell, that you and I and Phatboy are discussing is how to "know" what Scripture means. You can only know by testing. The Words of God are powerful. Where there is no power, there is no word from God. Where there is no demonstration, you do not have a correct interpretation of Scripture.Everything else is guessing, and leads to arguing and bold claims. The Scriptures teach that the proof is in the pudding. Where there is a demonstration, arguments end. No one can argue with power and demonstration.As far as I can tell, the ultimate proof is a message that unites people. Y'shua prayed, "Father, make them one, even as you and I are one, so the world may know that you sent me." He seemed to think that if his disciples were united in love, it would be proof to "the world."The born-again Christians of America are not united in love, so by Christ's own words, I dismiss them as his disciples. Their interpretation of Scripture is not correct. Whatever the Scriptures mean, they don't mean what born-again Christians say they mean.It's very hard to find those who claim to be disciples of Christ united in love, so therefore the world doesn't believe that Christ was sent from God. The early church shook the Roman empire. It was difficult to dismiss them, because they had good fruit. They had unity and love, and they could be seen to be disciples by their love for one another. The Christians of America are easy to dismiss, because they are not united in love.You will never be able to determine the meaning of Scripture on your own, because the meaning of Scripture is proven in results, and the result it calls for is love between disciples. Demonstration and power...when you see a demonstration of the power of unity and love, you will be able to know what the Scripture means.I will add one more thing to all that. There are promises in the Scripture that God will lead those disciples into all that's true. There are no such promises to anyone else.

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The Scriptures teach that the proof is in the pudding. Where there is a demonstration, arguments end. No one can argue with power and demonstration.

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Which is why I extricate myself from churches. When their lives outside of church don't reflect the teachings within the church, I see no demonstration of power.So if my life demonstrates the fruit of the spirit, then I have interpreted the scripture correctly, right?That cruise I went on this summer was very interesting. The ship was full of Christians from various denominations. Because of different beliefs within churches, conversation about faith was difficult unless you found people who believed the same way. So the conversation at our dinner table really stayed away from discussing religion.The theme of Charles Stanley's talks was patience. When we left the ship to reenter the real world, it was amazing how fast people forgot the lessons on patience.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that "Because the Roman Empire TOOK the Christian Church, Christianity thrived?"It was Constantine's co-option of Christianity as a State tool and religion that led to its rapid spread and adoption.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I am maybe not explaining what I think well enough. Deut 13 is one of the verses that presents the criteria for identifying true and false prophets. I think this is may be the crucial part of our misunderstanding.The other gods that Israel are being asked to worship are not in contact with the prophet, it is Yahweh pretending to be another god that has contacted the prophet who passed on the prophecy to see if Israel would follow another god. This was the test. This person is saying that the prophecy comes from, say Chemosh, when it is fact comes from Yahweh, that is a lie. However, Yahweh has to tell a lie in order for Him to be telling the truth, that He would test Israel. But, imagine you are the prophet, and not aware that this prophecy is a test, hasn’t God lied to that prophet by telling him/her a false name? The prophet is passing on the prophecy in good faith, yet it is a false prophecy because it he/she has said it is from another god. That prophet would be killed for prophesising in the name of another god and attempting to lead Israel away from Yahweh.The Israelites must have believed that Yahweh could tell a lie or there would be no way He could test them. If it was impossible for Him to lie then He could not give the prophet a false name, or a false prophecy, even if He had already said He would do this.Brian.

I don't see the lies. Please show me.

Deuteronomy 13:1-3If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. God tells lies to test Israel.

and corruption

Thank you.
But most material used for the purpose of teaching would fall into that category.
Using what is easily understood by the 'usee'?

I do not have a problem with God telling a lie. Many lies are told for a higher purpose.For example, there is a Buddhist tale of a father who tells his children that there is a man outside selling cakes and they can have some if they hurry up. They got outside and there was no cake seller there, however, the house was on fire and the father thought this was the best way to get them out of the house.He lied, but it was for a good reason.Of course, the Yahweh 'lie' was really Israel's intelligentsia providing criteria that would protect the people from outside influence.Cheers.Brian

thank you
cheers to you
perhaps a less tainted descriptive
but, no matter, I understand what you say.

Lets look at these scriptures: 1) Only one source (Yahweh) is to be listened to. There are only two spirits. 1) God 2) Our own(fallen angels need to capture our wills..our spirits..to have any power.) This goes back to the tree of knowledge of either/or. Before that, there was One Spirit to listen to. The serpent had no "Spirit" so he told us that we were gods...we were an alternative source.God is warning of attributing wisdom to any source besides Himself. No, the prophet lies if he attributes the wisdom to any source including himself. There is but one source. The other sources are lies. Gods Spirit=Gods imagination. human self deification, wisdom, etc=vain imagination. Call it psychology, call it "chutulu", or call it what you like.This was why the Tower of Babels languages were confused. God simply would not allow humanity to pool its collective imagination without Him being glorified. People are still trying to exclude Him today.Look at a modern paraphrase: It would be as if someone said to Christians who believe that God is the source to wake up! There is no God. Think for yourselves. You are your own source!
The Jews were monotheists. They constantly wanted a source stronger than themselves,(even if but a worldly king) but they tended to listen to whatever sounded good at the time. In todays world, we do the same thing. The most logical source is usually listened to.
God is not logical to the human mind.I would agree that we are to decide for ourselves, by thinking for ourselves, but to reject God is to follow "other gods." The "other gods" are the deification of our own minds.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-11-2005 14:32 AM

Actually, your first quote: Here is an example of GOD sending a prophet with true prophecy but that is attributed to someone other than the Hebrew GOD. Yet according to the passage, the prophet is sent by GOD as a test. GOD is lying to the people.A far more resonable explanation is that prophecy is simply unreliable. That passage is simply an out to explain that any prophet from any GOD is as likely to be right as one sent from the Hebrew GOD.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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There is no mention of a spiritual death.

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Why not?The relationship with the creator was damaged... This is a death far greater than physical.By the way, this topic isn't Tal's, you shouldn't have even replied to him lol. Now the topic is way off topic... hehehe.This message has been edited by prophex, 01-11-2005 21:17 AM

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"For I am the Lord your God, who churns up the sea so that it's waves roar-"
Isaiah 51:15

While some claims by pre-Constantinian Christians may be exaggerated, they can't possibly be so exaggerated as to justify that statement.No, a hundred years before Constantine, Tertullian was able to write to the emperor and tell him that if he banished all the Christians, he'd have no one left to pay him taxes. Tertullian obviously thought the Christians were extremely numerous."The Great Persecution" happened because of the large numbers and influence of Christians shortly before the time of Constantine. I heard an estimate of 10% of the empire being Christian during the late 3rd century, but I can't remember whether that estimate had a good source.One more from Tertullian. He said, "The more of us you kill, the more of us there are. The blood of the martyrs is seed."They were doing pretty well a long time prior to Constantine. I think their early history was pretty impressive, really.

Hmm...I can't say I'm sold, as the passage doesn't necessarily say that the person is attributing to a false god, or to any god, for that matter. But, since I don't believe the "God cannot lie" doctrine, there's no reason to press that point. Put me under the category of "you might have it right, but it's not certain to me."We do both agree that lying can have a higher purpose. I like the story of the spies Joshua sent into Canaan as an example. Rahab was richly rewarded and even became Y'shua's great-great-etc.-grandmother for lying to protect the spies.