Hammer found in Cretaceous layer

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Hi Tal. Thanks very much for doing this thread. I've mentioned this hammer in the past with a very limited knowledge about it. I'm wondering if Baugh's reluctance to have it analyzed is that he is afraid of a biased analysis being done.

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Probably already done. (Oh, you mean ANOTHER biased analysis.)

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However, I would think that he could muster up someone who is competent to observe the whole process. I'm sure he won't want to take his eyes off the whole process himself. (THIS'S NOT SAID TO QUESTION THE INTEGRITY OF PURPLE Y. OR ANYONE ELSE.) I'm simply thinking of some reasons why Baugh might be reluctant to let it out.

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This is a good point. I would never trust a sample sent from Baugh. Collect it yourself, PY.

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Baugh also has a cup in coal, as well as some other stuff which I'm interested in.

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Do you know any coal miners? If so, would you accept a sample from a coal mine ... probably collected by a miner?

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I do hope an objective analysis will be done so the truth about whether or not it is bonafide will be solidly established.

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My bet: It'll never happen.

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I would think that Baugh would want to verify everything by several sources so as to establish confidence in him and his work.

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No, because Baugh either thinks he knows the TRUTH already, or because he knows that it's all a hoax. There are too many holes in this story and Baugh won't risk a challenge.

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If he's balking on that simply because he's afraid of the truth, I would fault him there, but he shouldn't be judged until all the facts are out as to his integrity.

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Well, this is one of the facts: Baugh has refused a third-party analysis. How long will you not hold him to accounts?

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?? I'm not sure I understand your question. Any sample from a coal mine would logically be collected by a coal miner if by "collected," you mean acquired. If a miner brought me a chunk of coal from his mine with a cup securely embedded in it, you bet, I'd accept it.

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Yep, that's what they count on. There are few better sports among miners, drillers, etc. than to play the college kids for fools. Or the credulous true-believers... My advice to you is: never quit your day job to play poker for a living.

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Look, my point is that no coal mine is gona let Mr. Baugh go down and hunt stuff, nor is Mr. Baugh gona want to spend his time coal mining for artifacts. If anything's gona be found it's gona be found by a miner. I've seen this cup on tv and it's not what a coal miner could concoct up for a joke.

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And the Cretaceous hammer was real too, eh. Until the the story developed more holes than a boatload of Swiss cheese... So, then, bring us a picture of the cup. I'd like to see this artifact.And my point is, and it should be a red flag to you, that virtually all of these 'artifacts' have dubious origins, and were not scientifically vetted in the field. I don't care about excuses, the point is that we cannot verify their authenticity by qualified researchers.

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Can you cite a couple of examples of what you are referring to in order that we may compare them to Baughs hammer and cup?

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Not sure what you intend here, since two examples have been cited already. Isn't there a some kind of a boot in limestone someplace?Added by edit: And then of course there is the dry lake artifact that was supposed to be from some advanced, now vanished civilization. It turned out to be an old version of a spark plug. And yes, how about Onyate Man? Forgot about that one.This message has been edited by edge, 01-08-2005 20:37 AM

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Anyone who has ever worked at un underground mine will corroborate the bolded. Miners are insatiable tricksters.

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The things a YEC will never know. You've just brought back a lot of memories...

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1. .....And you know by mine experience?

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Actually, yes.

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2. I see nothing produced by skeptics as to how the tricks were allegedly done, that is to produce items embeded in actual coal deposits artificially. Can you show how the tricksters allegedly did it?

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That is not the point. The point is that nothing you have is actually, scientifically documented. In fact many times the artifact is not found in the coal, but only SAID to have been there. From that point, credulity takes over.Next post:

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1. Hmmm, all this talk about bogus real looking archeological stuff makes one wonder just how much of you people's ideological alleged evidence has been proven not bogus and how much of it has been subjected to the analytic scrutiny of creation scientists for fairness an balance.

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Most of it has, or else there is some other independent, objective evidence for the object.

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2. Has it been shown that coal can be faked or molded so as to encase things like cups and hammers, etc, ...

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Molds can be created easily, especially when the audience is credulous. Just look at some of the 'human footprints' tracking along dinosoar prints. Some are only human with the greatest of imagination, others are clear hoaxes, but still believed by those who want to believe.

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... and is there such a thing as young coal mines a few centuries old?

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Do you mean coal a few centuries old, or mines a few centuries old?

Actually, a lot of ideas have been shown to be bogus, but those are usually not the ideas that end up being published and validated by the scientific communitly.Do you at least have a picture of this cup? We always hear about such things as hammers embedded in rock, etc., but when we see the pictures it turns out nothing like the description.

The thing is, we don't know that it looked like normal coal. I have heard many things from laymen only to be disapppointed by the reality. A trained and experienced person should be able to tell the difference, but as yet, I do not see anything that would lead me to believe this instance of a buried artifact. The picture is less than convincing. Where is the mold that the affidavit mentions?