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Author Topic:   Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey [Synnegi]
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 155 (171222)
12-23-2004 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by mikehager
12-23-2004 7:41 PM


Re: The same old same old.
By all means, then stop; as you have decreed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by mikehager, posted 12-23-2004 7:41 PM mikehager has not replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 155 (171223)
12-23-2004 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
12-23-2004 7:30 PM


Re: I'm sorry but...
I went to the site you mentioned and checked out their "Biblical Science" references. Not one single item they mentioned was correct and most of them were either simply silly or not pertinent. There certainly was no proof of any scientific knowledge from the Bible and in fact, some pretty major misrepresentations.
He asked for evidence, and then said there is no evidence so I provided a link against his claims. And for the record the site does involve many Biblical interpretations and accounts. It even discusses the silver-cord (or, umbelica cord) of your spiritual body linking you to the physical body (or, earth womb). The silver cord is also listed in Ecclesiastes.
So while many accounts are unorthodox, I don't discredit the site entirely. But that's not the point. But for the sake of peace, I will leave him be, for now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 12-23-2004 7:30 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by mikehager, posted 12-23-2004 8:01 PM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6792 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 33 of 155 (171226)
12-23-2004 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by umliak
12-23-2004 7:58 PM


Re: I'm sorry but...
No, I don't think I'm finished with you. Your more recent posts at least have the limited virtue of brevity, so they are an improvement.
So, you can believe the stories on that page all you want, but you still have provided no support for your claim that any reasonable person will accept. It didn't even address the issue in question.
Will you withdraw your claim or not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by umliak, posted 12-23-2004 7:58 PM umliak has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by mikehager, posted 12-27-2004 5:25 PM mikehager has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 6233 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 34 of 155 (171228)
12-23-2004 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by umliak
12-23-2004 6:54 PM


Re: The same old same old.
umliak
There is about is more faithful evidence of a flood than evolution.
Talk is cheap. How about presenting your evidence that we might debate its worth or do you fear having to defend the rigidity of your stance?
I'm assuming you follow evolution since you claim to be an atheist. No? In fact your beliefs are much less developed than theology.
LOL you are so far off the mark it is stunning.Evolution has no dependency upon belief unlike the entirety of theology.The mechanisms that underlie the operation of evolution in nature work regardless of belief.They functioned before men came along and they will manage after we are long gone.
You drift along, as Jesus would say, like a tossing wave of the sea foaming up your shame
As an atheist myself I can assure you I most certainly do not drift along.Just like you I enjoy my life and my friends and family.Just like you I have my challenges and griefs to bear.WE are human you and Ibound to the same fate,and unable to get out of the game.
To me,this means that I do not have to impress others with my piety. There is no heaven nor is there hell but there is freedom from the fear of having to live up to unconscionable standards of conduct.
I care for people as a matter of enjoyment and not of imposed duty.
I am willing to die without question when the time comes fully aware that it is a permanent severence from the life I have lived and that there is nothing past that ending.
As I said, you believe in nothing and for some reason attempt to continue this nothingness and the end that is your lie
You need to get a grip and back up your little tirade by justifying your statement concerning lies.Perhaps you need to attack on a personal level because your are devoid of content for an arguement supporting your stance.
You want another analogy? Like a maggot that cannot see a man, though both exist and are living, and like a maggot has no eyes to see, so a man is a maggot to higher beings, with no 'eyes' to 'see' them, though both exist. If you were a maggot you probably wouldn't be aware of humans, so what makes you so great a human so as to be an atheist?
Here's another analogy: like a fetus you were with closed eyes in the womb, and one with your mother, so you are a fetus still with closed eyes in earth's womb, whereas at death you exit the womb (your body) to open your spiritual eyes--like you opened your eyelids at birth to discover this current life, and your human body.
Analogies are all you have? For one thing being an atheist isn't great or not great. It is just a stance I for one take based on the rationality of evidence presented.Do you really think we are atheist as a matter of ego?What possible connection is rolling through your gray matter that you would consider such drivel?
You credit scientific textbooks, but discredit spiritual testimony.
Spiritual testimony is very poor evidence in the same way as eyewitness estimony at a traffic accident or scene of a crime.
It is not poor because of the claim of spirituality it is poor because human beings are very susceptible to error especially about things at a personal or traumatic level.
You believe you are your body, though if you lost your arm you would not cease to exist. You can take foods out of your diet to change the composition of your physical body, yet if you take your entire physical body out of your diet, you believe you are no more.
I think you need to clarify this section I have highlighted.I will not comment on this part until I can unerstand properly just what you are trying to say here.
I would show you the Biblical passage, but while you can accept Newton's Laws and many other historical claims, you cannot accept anything beyond your realm of witness. A good website for you would be: Home - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife
Newtons laws can be tested to determine their validity and that validity does not require that you believe in it.Perhaps you would be willing to start a thread on any one of the topics on the website you presented and let us see how it stands up to the light of inquiry.
I didn't say I was a psychic, but by projecting the animal's spirit I can get a response--while it was licking itself.
Let's see your previous statement was...
can tell you that I have used the Holy Spirit and God to communicate telepathically with my pet cats
Now which is it.Projecting the animals spirit{whatever is that?}or communicating telepathically via the h.s. or god?When you are presenting bullshit at least make it a consistent bullshit.
Stand at a distance, and as you watch the animal, ask it questions about the Lord. Such as, "As a creature of God, and a witness of the Lord, in my time of distress and weak-faith, tell me what you know. I seek only the truth, for the truth will set me free."
So there is no possibilty you are delusional eh? I thought not.
And so I tell you the truth, you will receive all that you ask, but you must desire the truth and eternal life--as it belongs to God, not to you. The more you seek the truth and God, the more God will give you. But do not seek material things to possess, or status and power, for these belong to God, and afterall you were born naked and poor, and so you die naked and poor. So leave on earth what is part of earth, and give to God (yourself) to what is God's.
This is where we differ I suppose.I do not seek truth or eternal life. The former is a silly venture of people to be assured of a thumb to suck while the latter is the worst possible torture I could imagine inflicting upon a person.
So you are here to make war against God?
War on a non entity dreamed up by human beings? That would be such an excercise in futility.How about you bring god over to my place in person and then we will talk.Till then you are just blowing smoke up your own butt.
Please feel free to bring forth something more substantial than wishful thinking ok?

A centipede was happy quite, until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg comes after which?'
This raised his doubts to such a pitch
He fell distracted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by umliak, posted 12-23-2004 6:54 PM umliak has not replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 155 (171297)
12-24-2004 10:53 AM


All believers must provide proof and backups to everything they say or believe in? Likewise all you have to do is deny them on the basis you ignore or don't believe in them. I didn't ask for the debate, you guys brought it up. If you don't credit my opinion, then don't post in this thread. It's that simple. I've done enough 'debating' as it is. And I'm not a reknown Bible scholar, there are studies out there to support it just like there are studies to support your beliefs (evolution). And if evolution isn't a belief why is it referred to as Darwinism?

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2004 11:52 AM umliak has not replied
 Message 37 by NosyNed, posted 12-24-2004 11:55 AM umliak has replied
 Message 38 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2004 12:02 PM umliak has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 155 (171303)
12-24-2004 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by umliak
12-24-2004 10:53 AM


Re: Evolution a Belief
And if evolution isn't a belief why is it referred to as Darwinism?
Good point, Umliak. Welcome to EvC. Take your time and post prayerfully, thoughtfully and cautiously. We're a minority in hostile territory here where a number of highly educated and intelligent counterparts are ever ready to devour when we get the least bit careless. May God bless your effort here. I'm a slow thinker and poster so I tend to hang on a thread or two at a time. Otherwise I'd lend you some support here. I'll keep an eye out and read or post when I get time. We need also to support one another in prayer, in the name of Jesus, to our heavenly Father, God of the Bible.
I also liked your stuff on the spherical earth. I believe the Hebrew has only one word for both circle and sphere, but in your references, context answers which applied. Perhaps Crashfrog should've been required to provide a documented source for his contention that this was established before the Bible said it.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by umliak, posted 12-24-2004 10:53 AM umliak has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by ramoss, posted 12-25-2004 9:51 AM Buzsaw has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9012
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 37 of 155 (171304)
12-24-2004 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by umliak
12-24-2004 10:53 AM


Backup of your claims
umliak writes:
There is about is more faithful evidence of a flood than evolution.
umliak writes:
All believers must provide proof and backups to everything they say or believe in? Likewise all you have to do is deny them on the basis you ignore or don't believe in them. I didn't ask for the debate, you guys brought it up.
You made a statment that you seem to think is factual. Others don't. When there is such a difference of opinion it seems appropriate that you be asked to support your cliam.
It is also part of the forum guidelines you have agreed to.
Aside from the guidelines it makes you look a bit foolish when you make a claim and then run for cover when you are called on it. Don't worry to much, you have a lot of company since it seems to be a common reaction of those that think they have support for their beliefs. Unfounded claims are not going to impress anyone here; we've seen them before.
If you wish to simply go on faith and believe whatever you want then that is your right. Most of the 'unbelievers' here seem to be greater supporters of that right than many of the believers who post here and think that everyone should be required to follow their particular brand of faith.
However, if faith is all you have then you have no place making wild eyed claims about support for a world wide flood or any other comments in areas that you know from very little to absolutely nothing about.
And I'm not a reknown Bible scholar, there are studies out there to support it just like there are studies to support your beliefs (evolution)
Here you go again. Your claims about "studies" are meaningless. You are the one who posts this stuff. If you're not able to support what you claim "then don't post in this thread, it's that simple" .
And if evolution isn't a belief why is it referred to as Darwinism?
Who cares what it is called? There are theads for discussing the the connection between an acceptance of the ToE and religious beliefs. Jump in there is you actually have something to say. Of course, that would mean being prepared to defend your views. Perhaps that is something you're not used to being asked to do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by umliak, posted 12-24-2004 10:53 AM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by umliak, posted 12-25-2004 9:46 PM NosyNed has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 6233 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 38 of 155 (171307)
12-24-2004 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by umliak
12-24-2004 10:53 AM


umliak
All believers must provide proof and backups to everything they say or believe in?
Only to those that can be tested. When you make statements about physical events happening such as this from your OP
So earth becomes solid white, as ice expands to take over the sky, and it cannot contend with the fire below, as earth is now physically transformed into Jesus' great white throne;
Here you have launched into realms where science can be applied through such studies as thermodynamics and your assertion can be shown invalid as a physical possibilty.
If you stick to strictly faith based personal events where the listener must agree with you without being able to apply critical reasoning then you may proceed.However this does not warrant you being able to state that this is anything more than your opinion.If I wish to debate you on this then I must do it on another level.
Likewise all you have to do is deny them on the basis you ignore or don't believe in them.
Such is the problem with free willed people is it not? I personally do not necessarily ignore these things however if they are not reasonable in their structure or they directly conflict with evidence they do not occupy much of my gray matter. I suppose if you do not like the rules then you must deal with it.
I didn't ask for the debate, you guys brought it up.
Buddy are you dense? This is a debate forum. You cannot post here without expecting a rebuttal.Why don't you run off to a nice christian discussion site where everyone believes and will tell you how insightful you are.
If you don't credit my opinion, then don't post in this thread
Opinions are like assholes,everybody has one. Here at evc we must back up our statements not merely by pointing out websites or literature but by explaining why we take the particular positions we do.You make statements then you are astonished to find thinking people who disagree with you?Horrors!
I've done enough 'debating' as it is. And I'm not a reknown Bible scholar, there are studies out there to support it
In other words you are not sure of the veracity of the book you so boldly refer to? Perhaps you should make an effort to find out a little bit about it don't you think?How about you take one item from the website you mentioned and see if you can show your reasoning for accepting this as correct?
just like there are studies to support your beliefs (evolution)
Ah isn't education wonderful? First off evolution is an observed phenomena that shows changes occuring over large periods of time.This is only the most simple of statements to descibe the general overall structure that is evidenced in the world.
The theory of evolution is that which we construct to explain the evidence we find.It is a huge model which,owing to the grandeur of life,is present in hundreds of different scientific disciplines from anthopology to genetics to physics,chemistry,biology, neuroscience, you get the picture.These are evidence not belief and they converge on the same general principle evolution.
And if evolution isn't a belief why is it referred to as Darwinism?
It has to be classified as something by humans since that is how we deal with knowledge.There are neo-darwinists too I suppose but these are divisions within the system dealing with how the evidence is read not the evidence itself.

A centipede was happy quite, until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg comes after which?'
This raised his doubts to such a pitch
He fell distracted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by umliak, posted 12-24-2004 10:53 AM umliak has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 39 of 155 (171436)
12-25-2004 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by umliak
12-22-2004 11:02 PM


Re: The same old same old.
Pray tell, what "archelogical' finds demonstrate that the bible to be 100% accurate?? While some things in the bible probably ARE somewhat accurate, just because one piece of a story is doesn't mean the story is
true.
We know the civil war happened. Gone with the Wind mentions the civil war, THerefore, Scarlett O'hare was a real person.. (ya right).
I mean, look at the mismash some 'archelogists' recently did. Two sets of them found first century wine urns at two different sites in galielee at about the same time, and both groups declared they found the site of Jesus's first miracle. Mind you , these wine jugs are very very common. No reason to associate these wine jugs with a set of myths at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 11:02 PM umliak has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 40 of 155 (171437)
12-25-2004 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by umliak
12-22-2004 11:02 PM


Re: The same old same old.
Pray tell, what "archelogical' finds demonstrate that the bible to be 100% accurate?? While some things in the bible probably ARE somewhat accurate, just because one piece of a story is doesn't mean the story is
true.
We know the civil war happened. Gone with the Wind mentions the civil war, THerefore, Scarlett O'hare was a real person.. (ya right).
I mean, look at the mismash some 'archelogists' recently did. Two sets of them found first century wine urns at two different sites in galielee at about the same time, and both groups declared they found the site of Jesus's first miracle. Mind you , these wine jugs are very very common. No reason to associate these wine jugs with a set of myths at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 11:02 PM umliak has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 41 of 155 (171438)
12-25-2004 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
12-24-2004 11:52 AM


Re: Evolution a Belief
The people who refer to evolution as 'darwinism' are people who are trying to discredit evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2004 11:52 AM Buzsaw has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 155 (171460)
12-25-2004 5:50 PM


TOPIC folk.
The topic is "Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey". Evolution has nothing to do with that. Let's try to move back towards the topic.

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umliak
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 155 (171485)
12-25-2004 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by AdminJar
12-25-2004 5:50 PM


Re: TOPIC folk.
Originally posted by AdminJar:
The topic is "Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey". Evolution has nothing to do with that. Let's try to move back towards the topic.
Thank, this is my point. I could very easily provide proof, such as the second book of Esdras when God is revealing things to him, he speaks at one point of the earth's plates that move about. This is a very recent discovery, and yet the second book of Esdras (Apocrypha, should have been included in the Bible, but was removed for some reason; Lord knows why) tells of this, as well as answers many other things that I could go on listening, but I see no reason why I should have to support their ruthless trashing of the thread by agreeing to compromise the very topic; or point of me posting this.
I fail to see any place in the License Agreement that I agreed to when registering to the forum that requires me to act as a slave to irrelevant things for those looking to misguide a topic.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Coragyps, posted 12-25-2004 10:20 PM umliak has replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 155 (171486)
12-25-2004 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NosyNed
12-24-2004 11:55 AM


Re: Backup of your claims
You made a statment that you seem to think is factual. Others don't. When there is such a difference of opinion it seems appropriate that you be asked to support your cliam.
I supported claims, people are asking me for proof to things I didn't claim, and then asking for things they admit they are unwilling to accept, acknowledge, nor that they think exist. They ask me to prove there is a God beyond evidence they'll accept. If God had a picture, men would worship its camera. If they can't stay on topic, I find it disrespectful to all participants that they speak.
It is also part of the forum guidelines you have agreed to.
To backup claims? Men can start threads without ever posting again. I didn't agree to be forced to speak, even though I do speak; and I speak respectfully not out of boundaries, but in a thread I started.
Aside from the guidelines it makes you look a bit foolish when you make a claim and then run for cover when you are called on it. Don't worry to much, you have a lot of company since it seems to be a common reaction of those that think they have support for their beliefs. Unfounded claims are not going to impress anyone here; we've seen them before.
I have made no unfounded claims but started a thread that has to do with scientific analysis of Biblical accuracey; and yet while this is so, men go out of their way to ignore this and be off-topic by demanding I show proof the Bible is 100% (something I never declared), and proof of things irrelevant--and now you take it a step further by attempting to persecute me for not enslaving myself. Do you not understand?
Here you go again. Your claims about "studies" are meaningless. You are the one who posts this stuff. If you're not able to support what you claim "then don't post in this thread, it's that simple" .
I posted stuff in response to people speaking off-topic. To further make my stance clear to you, a response to people talking to me does not mean I am required to follow them off-topic. In fact that would make me look like a fool; and that's what I believe. I suppose you now need a link to something to support my belief that this makes me look like a fool? If you wouldn't mind, I would ask that you would go in keeping with the topic and add something constructive. So far I've only been summoned to have to defend myself, and as the Bible tells us, "do everything without arguing or fighting." So please stop asking me to argue so as to tell you you're wrong. I respect you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NosyNed, posted 12-24-2004 11:55 AM NosyNed has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 1060 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 45 of 155 (171493)
12-25-2004 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by umliak
12-25-2004 9:20 PM


Re: TOPIC folk.
he speaks at one point of the earth's plates that move about. This is a very recent discovery, and yet the second book of Esdras (Apocrypha, should have been included in the Bible, but was removed for some reason; Lord knows why) tells of this
I'm calling you on this. I sure find nothing of the sort at BibleNet - http://www.biblenet.net/library/apocrypha/?s= - when I search for "earth" or "plates". Chapter & verse, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by umliak, posted 12-25-2004 9:20 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by umliak, posted 12-25-2004 11:08 PM Coragyps has replied

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