Well, I tried to watch LOTR.

I agree. I don't mean to knock Tolkein from his throne - his books were a considerable achievment, and invented Second World fantasy as a genre (and sub-genre), but better works have been written since his time, objectively; and subjectively, I've enjoyed other fantasy works far, far more than LOTR, like Tad William's "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" books, or Martin's "Song of Fire and Ice" novels. Look at it this way. Edison may have been the Wizard of Menlo Park, but today we have far, far better light bulbs than any he invented. So too with Tolkien. That I find his pacing awkward, his plots meandering, and his descriptions often possessed of frivolous and unnecessary depth, doesn't deminish the fact that the entire genre owes him a debt of gratitude.But if LOTR came out today, instead of when they did, and if everything else about the fantasy genre was the same, the LOTR books would be dismissed as mediocre at best. On their own merits, they're just not that good. In their historical context, they're brilliant.

I'm a-getting out my whuppin' stick!

#3 Respect for others is the rule here. Argue the position, not the person. The Britannica says, "Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach."I'm still learning to admin around here but I'd say that "whuppin'" is not showing reasonable respect for others. If you don't put that stick away I'm going to have to do something drastic.Besides as an admin my opinion counts more and I agree with the critics of the Tolkien books.

Lol! Heh, thanks Nosy, but I'm not worried about some "Frodo Lives!" fanboys.

Careful or you two might end up a toad in a garden filled with green snakes. Well, I'm trying again. So far it's still pretty boring. Harder to get through than the Silmarillion.This message has been edited by AdminJar, 12-11-2004 07:50 PM

You fail to show proper respect for the whuppin' stick, and the strong and sinewy hand weilding it.

Well, I tried again. And it still sucks. Poorly done, very disjointed, lousy effects, terrible costuming, way to many strage and unneeded noises. Got as far as Weathertop but that whole enactment was so really bad I gave up.To all those who enjoyed the film, more power to you. I can understand, afterall, some folk enjoy Frozen Yogurt. I guess I'm an Ice Cream person.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Bah. I mock your stick, and invite you to attempt to apply it to my hindquarters as you suggest - provided you attempt to do so at my apartment.My apartment full of swords.

I enjoyed LOTR (all 3 of them). However, they were some of those moview where I don't really feel like watching them a second time.

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Hate world.Revenge soon!

I never threatened your hindquarters. The whuppin' stick is plied about the head, shoulders, adbomen and groin.Fear the whuppin' stick.

My mistake. As you had not hitherto specified the location of the whuppin', I assumed the target was the customary one in such cases.But much as Musashi carved a boken from an oar when he grew weary of steel, I'm prepared to cross sticks with you. You may choose the island, in the ancient tradition.This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-12-2004 01:01 AM

You row, I will fight.

Go rent the DVD. Please dont sit through all those commercials it ruins the flow of the movie. Dont be a cheap ass and try watching the TV version.Rent it. Now if you still dont like it, then there is no pleasing you because the movies all 3 were IMO masterpieces that rang true to the trilogy. You may just have way to much of an imagination Jar..LOL.

To be fair, Tolkein was not in a position while writing to know exactly where all of this was going to end up. I think Ned was right that an editor should have said something, especially if it was known when the first book was submitted that there would be a third book. As it is, I don't know if we can be sure that Tolkein actually chose that name for the third book. It may have been a suggestion that he accepted.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Are you referring to the movie or the books? I thought you had suggested you had read the books before and you were upset because of the disconnect between movie and book?In any case, art is all subjective and so maybe you won't like it. The first movie is slowly paced and filled with a bit more "tenderness" than the other two. When I watched the first one I thought it was much much better than I was expecting, but had problems of pacing and a few modernisms I didn't like. Thus I was sort of neutral.With the second movie I felt, oh wait this is starting to do something, as the pace took a jump forward. The third moved even faster, until the end, and by that point I was engrossed in the world Jackson had created to mirror Tolkein's vision.I have to agree with another poster you should not watch it on television for any reason. It just makes no sense. I have yet to see any movie I like, considered watchable once it got broke up with commercial ads... and LOTR is something you have to watch with the pacing the director gave it.And like I said, get through the first, then make sure to watch the second. If you are not caught by the second then it simply isn't to your taste.But it did catch with me, I like it a lot, and it helped me appreciate Tolkein better.(edited in: What was wrong with costuming? I thought the costumes were great and by the third were outrageously well done. I have not seen better in any fantasy movie. Have you?... By the way, I like ice cream too. The point is some like rum raisin and some like caramel swirl. None are actually superior, just different tastes).This message has been edited by holmes, 12-12-2004 06:46 AM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)