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Author Topic:   Topic Proposal Issues
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 517 (145010)
09-27-2004 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by PaulK
09-27-2004 10:14 AM


Perhaps Admin could create a "chat" forum for each of the major areas of discussion which requires only that a topic makes sense (more or less) and that the initial post follows the guidelines.
That sounds like a really bad case of creeping featuritis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by PaulK, posted 09-27-2004 10:14 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 17 of 517 (146822)
10-02-2004 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Ooook!
09-27-2004 10:07 AM


quote:
and then kill a topic early if it looks like it's disintegrating.
Some topics are disintegrating part way through message 1. Once the topic gets going, it's hard to kill it without someone being upset about it.
The primary purpose of the PNT process is to get an opening message and topic title that clearly defines the theme of the topic. To at least get the topic off to a good start. Hopefully this would help the quality of the topic as it progressed, and also help moderation efforts. I just wish that the general membership put more effort into keeping in touch with the topic theme. It's tough at best, for the admins to control topic drift, if the membership won't contribute self-moderation.
Perhaps it would be a good thing, if the topic originator had the power to close the topic. The topic could always be reopened.
The topic message volume is such that a topic could run amuck for a long time before an admin can catch up on it. I know that there are quite a few topics that I give no attention to at all. Every once in a while I get a burst of gung-ho, and start closing topics gone bad. That's why you see me closing several topics within minutes of each other.
A good topic going bad is bad enough. A bad topic going good is even worse. I really hate to see post of the month caliber messages being buried in bad topics, and/or being in topics where they are off-theme.
I've closed topics, including ones in the Free For All forum, because I saw that good discussion was happening in a bad place.
Well, crappy organization, but there are my thoughts of the moment.
Adminnemooseus

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 18 of 517 (148136)
10-07-2004 2:50 PM


Please either say something to john hunter regarding his new thread big bang and cosmology or allow it through. I'm itching to reply to it. Also, if you notice, the guy is a newbie. If you just ignore him like that, it's not the best way to draw new blood into our gene pool.

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 19 of 517 (148138)
10-07-2004 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by coffee_addict
10-07-2004 2:50 PM


Trying to catch up on the PNT backlog.
Going to rename the topic in question (to "God created the universe at some time before the Big Bang"), and then release it. Stand by.
AM
ps: Patience weedhopper - The topic won't spoil if left in the PNT too long.

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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 20 of 517 (158766)
11-12-2004 1:38 PM


Terrorist or Freedom Fighter
O Most Hallowed MrAdminHambre: Although an interesting topic in and of itself, I was wondering why you felt DarkStar's OP required additional fleshing out before being promoted? He's essentially asking for opinions from the peanut gallery. It's entirely possible he may argue within that framework, but I don't see why the topic itself can't be promoted as is. Someone pleez 'splain this to me, por favor?

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by AdminHambre, posted 11-12-2004 1:50 PM Quetzal has replied

  
AdminHambre
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 517 (158770)
11-12-2004 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Quetzal
11-12-2004 1:38 PM


Re: Terrorist or Freedom Fighter
Q,
Since it is sort of time-sensitive, and who knows when DarkStar will deign to Darken our doorstep again, I'll move the new topic.
Adminssimo Hambre

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Quetzal, posted 11-12-2004 1:38 PM Quetzal has replied

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 Message 22 by Quetzal, posted 11-12-2004 3:02 PM AdminHambre has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 22 of 517 (158808)
11-12-2004 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by AdminHambre
11-12-2004 1:50 PM


Re: Terrorist or Freedom Fighter
Thank you sir. I knew there was something I liked about you...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AdminHambre, posted 11-12-2004 1:50 PM AdminHambre has not replied

  
kendemyer
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 517 (158925)
11-12-2004 9:38 PM


TO: ALL
Is there any other board on the internet that uses a Proposed New Topics Forum system?
Has any other board copied this model because they thought it was a good idea?
I am not saying that an absence of boards using this system necessarily means it is a bad idea but at the same time I do not believe that other boards will adopt it.
I think it is too beaucratic and stifles debate. I will take a example from history. Europe regulated religion. Religion is weak there. The United States offered more liberty in regards to religion and it blossomed. I do not see any catastrophic results from bad threads being opened. Worst case scenario if someone opens a bad thread it is closed. I think boards that offer more freedom are going to be more popular and have a wider group of participants. One poster here said that traffic in a science related forum here is way down and blamed it on the new system. I think the costs are higher than any real benefits.

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-13-2004 12:05 AM kendemyer has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 24 of 517 (158976)
11-13-2004 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by kendemyer
11-12-2004 9:38 PM


Re: Birth of the "Proposed New Topics" concept
The discussion and roots of the "Proposed New Topics" forum can be found in the Dealing with waste of time threads and their posters... topic.
After reading that, you can procede to Structure changes, most forums closed to the starting of new topics (4/13 - No longer pending).
The origin of the "PNT" forum was carefully considered.
Other forums do things differently. I believe the Baptist Board passes EVERY message through review before it is posted. I believe the admins there also do heavy editing before the message appears, if it appears at all. Such is an extreme example of one way of doing things.
As opposed to some other forums, here at messages are not edited for content by the admins, nor are topics or messages deleted. Exceptions to this standard are extremely rare, and almost always are actions taken against spammers (porn sites, selling products, etc.)
The bottom line: The "PNT" was initiated to try to assure that that topics got off at least to a good start. This means a reasonably good opening message and meaningful topic title. Also new topics that are not redundant to existing topics, especially active ones.
The system, of course, is not perfect. Sometimes quality proposed topics have delayed releases, and sometimes less than quality opening messages and/or topic titles get prematurely promoted.
I think all the admins agree it is a worthy system, and most of the members also do, or at least find it bearable.
Adminnemooseus
ps added by edit: There was also considerable discussion of the "PNT" system, in the "Private Admin Forum".
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-13-2004 12:13 AM

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Replies to this message:
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kendemyer
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 517 (159078)
11-13-2004 1:31 PM


TO: Admin"Moose"
Dear Admin"Moose":
Two points:
1. I saw AdminNosy harrassing and demanding editing of a reasonable poster regarding his scientific foreknowledge in the Bible thread. I cannot agree with your last post in this thread.
2. The Baptist board despite being very conservative allows evolution to be debated at its board freely with little or no moderation in my experience. I am guessing the Baptist Board screens post to avoid porn and non-baptist theology in its Baptist forums (there are Baptist areas and non-baptist areas). By the way, I am not a Baptist. I would also state that its forum is clearly mainly for baptist and thus it has policies reflective of this.
3. This board is a largely a ghost town in its science oriented forums. You cannot tell me that the boards policies are working. They are not.

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-13-2004 4:12 PM kendemyer has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 26 of 517 (159116)
11-13-2004 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by kendemyer
11-13-2004 1:31 PM


Re: TO: Admin"Moose"
The following are general comments, not directed soecificly at this topic:
1) USE THE REPLY BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE YOU ARE REPLYING TO.
2) Quit you whining and debate the themes of the topic. Write material pertinent to the theme of the topic, and not other side comments.
You are very close to a suspension.
Your situation reminds me of a "Far Side" cartoon:
A group of lab technicians are looking through a one-way window at a group of goofy people. One of the technicians says "Of course they're fools. The question is, what kind of fools are they?"
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by kendemyer, posted 11-13-2004 1:31 PM kendemyer has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 27 of 517 (159964)
11-15-2004 10:11 PM


Rejecting beat to death topics?
Irreducably Complex in the "Proposed New Topics" forum.
Feedback from "the peanut gallery"?
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by AdminNosy, posted 11-15-2004 10:17 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 28 of 517 (159965)
11-15-2004 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Adminnemooseus
11-15-2004 10:11 PM


Re: Rejecting beat to death topics? IC Redux
I would not completely reject the topic. This has never been finished.
However, I think directing the OP author to review what is already there makes sense. Then let him decide if he will promise to stick to defending what he is putting forward. If so I'd let him have ago at it.
But he does have to demonstrate he's read over the other material. He could do this my adding to the OP and describing (very briefly) what he would say to answer the major objections to the suggestion that IC is a problem. Just listing his words covering the consensus scientific view of IC would be enough to show he has read it over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-15-2004 10:11 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by AdminJar, posted 11-15-2004 10:26 PM AdminNosy has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 517 (159968)
11-15-2004 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by AdminNosy
11-15-2004 10:17 PM


How about you opening the thread
and adding guidelines. It certainly would not offend me and likely I could learn by watching how you handle it?

How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by AdminNosy, posted 11-15-2004 10:17 PM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 30 of 517 (159975)
11-15-2004 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by AdminJar
11-15-2004 10:26 PM


Re: How about you opening the thread
ok.
Now I feel really on the spot (as if I didn't everytime I try to act like an admin).

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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