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Author Topic:   Is God All Loving? Does the bible support Inclusion (Universalism)?
Khiuser
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 17 (158760)
11-12-2004 1:28 PM


Ken, it is interesting that you mentioned the lake of fire from Revelations. Firstly, Revelations is based for a large part on imagery and metaphor. I'm not saying the either of these is less truthful than any other means of communication, I simply state that it is generally accepted to be as such. Secondly, if you take a look throughout the Bible, what do you find that is eternal and fire? I'll save you a look and tell you that it is God. God appears as and uses fire numerous times in the Old Testament. Fire was also understood by the Jewish people as a purifier, a way in which one was made clean. So, some take the eternal lake of fire to be the purifying nature of God which come upon all those whose whose "name was not found written in the book of life" Rev 20:14. If you look at Rev 20:14-15 you can see it reads like this:
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
If the lake of fire is Hell, then why is Hades (which is also translated into Hell throughout the New Testament) thrust into it. Hell goes to Hell?
Anyways, a few points to think upon.

  
Khiuser
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 17 (158769)
11-12-2004 1:45 PM


On the topic of free will and Universalism, Universalism need not claim that free will does not exist. In fact this is the first time I have heard the two placed together. As I understand it, Universalism claims that all people will one day turn to God. Not be forced, but will willingly and freely recognize God for who He is and choose to follow Him. The Bible makes a number of references to all people recognizing God and also more of all people praising Him (see Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Rev 5:13). But just because all people will one day choose God does not mean that free will does not exist. That God is the best answer for everyone is a truth. It is not an opinion. My favorite ice cream flavour is a opinion, that my sex is male is a truth. It is not up for debate. Those there are those who would I have no doubt. But they are ignorant to the truth. To say that one day their eyes will be freed of the vail of ignorance is not limiting their free will. In fact, to be free, one must have one's ignorance removed, for otherwise our freedom is limited (which is currently is). Free will is not free until ignorance is removed, and when it is, then the only choices we will make will be those of truth. But even this is not a limit to free will, for we shall choose every time. Just as you stating your sex as male (or female depending on the situation) is not a limit of your free will because you were "forced" to see the truth, neither is choosing God.
This is an interesting topic that has many avenues to look into, but for now I think I have written enough. I await any response with interest.

  
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