the forgery of deuteronomy

no, it's a subtle distinction. gentiles are not HELD to the law. the law is a set of terms that makes the israelites god's people, because he brought them out of egypt.and uhh, back on topic please. this has nothing to do with the date of deuteronomy.This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 11-10-2004 02:26 AM

Israelite and Jew are the same, it is a state of mind.
Jew is also a nationality as in Israeli.As for Christ fulfilling the law, it simply means he ratified it. Many people believe it was 'done away' with. Isn't that convenient? And so preciously quaint.Not one jot or tittle shall pass from it, for as long as time shall be.

Pecos,
Are you Jewish, if so, did you journey through the desert with Moses? If not, then you are not the Isrealites that I am speaking of, as I said before, there is a difference. Now with respect to this particular post, if you would like to discuss this further, make a post, and I will be more than happy to discuss it with you Jumping from one topic to another gets a discussion off it's original meaning, and I am sure that whoever started this particular topic, would like to talk about that particular topic.

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Angel

israelite: someone from israel.
jew: someone from judah.
hebrew: someone who follows the judaic faith: belief in yhwh. ever read the book of chronicles? kings? the two were separate nations for a long, long time.

There is only one kind of Israelite, the kind that is one inwardly, it is a state of mind, not a state of state.
If we are Christ's, we are Abraham's seed, and grafted onto the tree by virtue of ..... the Bible says so.
Am I Jewish and did I journey? I'll let it pass, you look young.

Someone from Israel is an Israeli, ask any Israeli about the difference between Israelite and Israeli. They are not even slightly compatible, because an Israeli is rarely an Israelite.
Thank you for your thoughts.

i'm speaking strictly in terms of the bible, not modern times.words change meaning.

I find nothing dated in the scriptures. The difference between the meaning of Iraeli vs. Israelite is as timeless as the God who created it.
Thank you again for your thoughts.

look harder.ezekiel has a word in it that in modern hebrew means "electricity." do you think ezekiel meant electricity? israel/judah used to be theocracies. the people who lead the country lead the religion as well. if you were an israelite, you were hebrew. the two took on the same meaning.now, there are athiest, christian, and muslim israeli's, but israelite still has the connotation of the older word, even though it just means someone from israel.both as just funny english translations anyways. the way to say "israelite" in hebrew is "ben'yisrael" or "son of israel" so LITERALLY an israelite is someone descended from jacob.

If you are Christ's, you are Abraham's seed and an Israelite and son of Jacob.
The people who led the country didn't have a clue as to what they were supposed to do as the chosen nation. They were an utter failure.I really appreciate your time and the effort you give to share your knowledge. It is distasteful to me to engage in circular discussions. Meaning, going round and round and achieving nothing except getting dizzy. Please understand, I am not dismissing what you know to be truth for you, it just does not co-incite with a few decades of intensive study and still going on.
Take good care, hope to see you again here.
George

depends on how literally you read it.but i don't think the israelis would appreciate christians call themselves israelites. depends on which book you read. intensive study in what exactly? because this is pretty basic...

Good news, I don't think Christ cares too deeply about what the 'chosen people' appreciate and what not.
The chosen people were chosen to take Jehovah God to all the nations of the world. That did not coincide with their plans.
In Abraham all the nations of the world are blessed.
Christ is the blessed hope for all those who come to him, ALL who come to him. And he is not for those who don't, pretty much meaning most Jews.An afterthought, I hope that helps. Of course, you may choose not to take it literally, which is fine with me. Being selective is a good thing.Read Rom. 11:16-2216, For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17, And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19, You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20, Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21, For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22, Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 11-11-2004 08:15 AM

To all,To maybe help steer this thread back toward the OP's intention, what Arachnophilia is saying here is, IMO, not only spot on, but his efforts to differentiate between the terms Jew & Israel also go to the heart of the premise.It must be remembered that following the destruction and dispersal of the northern kingdom, the regnal succession of the southern kingdom of Judah was Manasseh (who "did evil in the sight of YHWH" - II Kgs. 21:2), then a very brief (c. 2 yrs.) reign by Amon, and then the first YHWH fearing king of Judah (after the destruction of the northern kingdom), Josiah, (who "did right in the sight of YHWH" - II Kgs. 22:2).It was, then, only with the advent of the YHWH-fearing king Josiah that there would have been serious consideration as to why the northern kingdom of Israel was destroyed in apparent conflict with the promises that had been given to the Israelites by YHWH himself.Thus, what Arachnophilia is saying, and I agree with, is that it is suspiciously convenient that Josiah would be provided with an alleged ancient writing of Moses which tended to explain the matter precisely in condemning the worship practices of the northern kingdom (and also those which Judah had reverted to under the reign of Manasseh).IOW, this (allegedly ancient & authoritative) document provided Josiah with precisely the foundational authority he would have wanted to both explain the demise of the northern kingdom and to implement the Yahwistic reforms he favored.And further still, it is suspicious in the extreme that the Israelites would have formerly managed to lose and forget about one of the five books purportedly penned by Moses.While, as Angel says, absolute proof of the matter will likely never be obtained, the overall implication seems clear enough. The original book of Deuteronomy was probably penned in the time of Josiah (c. 640 - 609 B.C.) as a means of providing Josiah with a specific authoritative foundation for his agenda.JMHO,Amlodhi

listen, you either believe the bible or you don't. the bible calls israel god's chosen people. respect that, or don't call yourself a believer. that wasn't the promise i read in genesis or exodus. and that's not the promise that's causing wars in israel and palestine even today.and his name is not jehovah. so you're saying that god broke his promise? that's blasphemy, buddy.

yes, thank you. that's what i'm getting at.it's silly that we have to quibble over the difference between and israelite, a judean or jew, and a hebrew. and george's remarks came off as somewhat anti-semitic on top of it.