The power of prayer: in action

The comment was more or less to point out, that it is not what the people want but what the evil leaders want.I was talking about today, and its true.We are a race, a nation, an individual. We hold responsibility for each and for all. Wouldn't you agree to that?

I don't know, you seem to have a hold on it.
Are you the only one or something?
Your like the Matrix reloaded?

One time, shortly after I first got saved, I was lying down and feeling peaceful and empowered by my new relationship with God. It is hard to describe the feeling to a non believer, so I can only say that for the first time in my life I KNEW that God was present with me. Suddenly, a presence swirled around me and I distinctly heard high pitched voices telling me that I was still in bondage.."Why don't you f***in pray?" Is what I remember them saying in a taunting way. I did pray, and as if by magic, the literal cloud of emotional deception lifted off of me.On a strict scientific level, we have not proven the effectiveness of prayer beyond the same level as talking to plants makes them grow.
On a personal level, many many people have reported that prayer works.
One mans God is another mans scotch and water, but I believe that prayer works because of who God is, rather than because of faith in faith.

Mike wrote to Dpardo, referring to me: No I count the positives and the negatives. It's you guys that count the positives and disregard the negatives. I'm actually looking for evidence of your God, and have been for many years. You guys deny any evidence suggesting that your God does not exist. Heck you even stack the deck so that nothing can every evidence his non-existence!An objective assessment of the lives of theists vs atheists show absolutely no material difference. That is the proposition of my earlier posts.

Phatboy wrote: Thanks for this, and Riverat's candid insights into your minds. Absolutely horrifying.When you make the leap of faith and enter the realm of the imaginary and superstitious, you kiss reality goodbye an open up a pandoras box of mental conditions. I have argued for years that there is absolutely no distinction between religious beleif that results in visions and messages and schizophrenia.The only thing that (partially) confines your condition is the parameters of your delusion; your particular faith.Why the heck is it us atheists never see any of this stuff? I am so glad I live in this world and not the one inside your head.

You might note Gil, that only counting negatives would begin to demonstrate that something very strange was going on.If we only counted the times when a prayer wasn't answered we'd end up with a statistically significant effect of prayer -- a very powerful one at that.Then there would be the problem of conjecturing about what the reason for this was. Would it be a proof of the devil or something? It sure would have a lot of people scratching heads.

Are the crazy people in the institutions or on the streets? Maybe because you are shielded from knowing the truth?
While you keep scratching your head and asking yourself why we are here, and what is my purpose, I have figured it out. Actually, I have been blessed with the knowledge that leads me to salvation. Coming to Christ is not just merely a human effort, and althought many are called, few are choosen.Statistical evidence that has happened to me since I got saved:
Physical change to my body(or peoples perception of has been warped),
Blessing after blessing after blessing poured out upon my business,
I suddenly find myself in a role of leadership for hundreds of people,

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 185 by Gilgamesh, posted 10-29-2004 2:34 AM		Gilgamesh has not replied

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Replies to this message:
	Message 196 by sidelined, posted 10-29-2004 8:33 AM		riVeRraT has replied

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Are the crazy people in the institutions or on the streets? Maybe because you are shielded from knowing the truth?
While you keep scratching your head and asking yourself why we are here, and what is my purpose, I have figured it out. Actually, I have been blessed with the knowledge that leads me to salvation. Coming to Christ is not just merely a human effort, and althought many are called, few are choosen.Statistical evidence that has happened to me since I got saved:
Physical change to my body(or peoples perception of has been warped),
Blessing after blessing after blessing poured out upon my business,
I suddenly find myself in a role of leadership for hundreds of people,
Several of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit
Something happens to me physically when I am filled with the Holy Spirit, like nothing I have ever felt before. I cannot just explain that one away by calling myself crazy, but would you know, I even tried to.
It happens to me in all aspects of life, not just worship or prayer, or playing music for the Lord.Tell me how would you explain talking to someone you never meet before, then all of a sudden getting filled with the Holy Spirit, and a bunch of words pop into your head. You tell the person and then they start crying, and acknowledging everything you tell them. there's no way that is a human thing, there's no way I would ever be capable of that. I never did that in 39 years of living, all of a sudden I can tell people thier lives?This happens when the Spirit wants it to happen, not when I want it too. when you meet people, sometimes when you start to know them better, you will ask them questions like, what drives you in life, or question peoples motives. I can tell that about most people now by simply asking the Holy Spirit, or he just reveals it to me. All of a sudden I am smart? I think not. I could never figure out people, that has always been a problem of mine. That was my own miracle that happened to me.*edit* Can someone remove my previous post, I messed up a tag, and I can't edit it. I think I need a new keyboard.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 10-29-2004 06:37 AM

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Statistical evidence that has happened to me since I got saved:

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I really really doubt that statistical evidence happened to you.

Thats your job, to be a doubter.
They are my own statistics, that I keep track of. Non the less they are statistics.Main Entry: statistics
Pronunciation: st&-'tis-tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: German Statistik study of political facts and figures, from New Latin statisticus of politics, from Latin status state
1 : a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data
2 : a collection of quantitative dataBegore I got saved:
0 people have told me I look ten years youngerAfter I got saved:
Everyone I meet tells me the same exact thing, you look ten years younger. Except for one guy, he actually thought I was my own son, lmao. It was 11 months since I last seen him.But I am not one for statistics anyway, was just sharing with the group.

it is nothing to do with my being a doubter - I just hate to see someone being assulted by the english language.

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But I am not one for statistics anyway, was just sharing with the group.

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Good because those were not statistics. Do you not think that part of the problem you have here (evcforum) is that you clearly don't understand many of the terms that you use?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-29-2004 07:11 AMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-29-2004 07:18 AM

Why because you didn't collect them?
I indicated they are my own personal statistics.
Insulting me doesn't change the truth.It would seem to me your whole purpose here is to haggle believers with as little words as possible. I have never seen one constructive comment come from you yet.

some questions on this if you don't mind:

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Physical change to my body(or peoples perception of has been warped),

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Wouldn't that have happened anyway? how do you know it's because you were saved ? Are the people who compliment you on this (presumably), of the same faith as you ?

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Blessing after blessing after blessing poured out upon my business,

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did bad things happen to your business as well ? Have the blessings changed in frequency, or magnitude, since before you were saved ?

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I suddenly find myself in a role of leadership for hundreds of people,

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Is that necessarily a good thing ? was your being saved a pre-requisite for this role? (i.e. is that role in your religious community?)

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Something happens to me physically when I am filled with the Holy Spirit, like nothing I have ever felt before. I cannot just explain that one away by calling myself crazy, but would you know, I even tried to.

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Something happens to me physically when I eat chocolate, listen to good music, or watch Cameron Diaz films . I just don't attribute it to the Holy Spirit. Could it be that each time you feel happy and elated you think it's the Holy Spirit that caused it, rather than the other way round ?

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Tell me how would you explain talking to someone you never meet before, then all of a sudden getting filled with the Holy Spirit, and a bunch of words pop into your head.

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I do it all the time. My colleagues call it 'talking bulls**t', I prefer to call it 'inspiration'. Why does the Holy Spirit have to come into it ?

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You tell the person and then they start crying, and acknowledging everything you tell them. there's no way that is a human thing, there's no way I would ever be capable of that.

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Could it be that the persons you're talking to want to hear what you're telling them? Could it also be that they are stressed, vulnerable and prone to emotional responses ?Also, do you realize that many people from different religious persuasions can produce the same effect ? Are you all guided by the same Spirit ? How do you know that the 'right' Spirit is guiding you and not the others ?thanks,L.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

OK - let's try something constructive -Can you outline to us the "True" Mean and Confidence Interval?What was the shape of the Distribution?Two very simple and straight forward questions for you to answer - unless you are not actually dealing with stats.....

Phatboy Sorry to bust the bubble Phatboy but the is no scientific evidence showing that talking to plants makes them grow.By your own admission the effectiveness of prayer amounts to zilch under investigation with controls.

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[W]hen people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together