Which ten commandments do you follow?

No, that's exactly what it means, because church influence on the state is exactly what the First Amendment prohibits.It's ok for religious folk to work in the state, or to run for office, especially because the Constitution says we have to let them. And it's ok for an elected official to be motivated by their faith in terms of policy. (I'm trying to connect this to a larger point re: the role of faith in this election.) But that policy must be justified only by secular means.It's ok for someone to oppose abortion, for instance, because of their religious beliefs. It's not ok for them to push for or vote for legislation to that end unless they can demonstrate a secular rationale, as well. That's why it's ok, for instance, for John Kerry to ge religiously against abortion, but find himself in a position of having to support a woman's right to have an abortion. Since there's no secular argument against abortion, there's no basis for legislation against it. So, too, for homosexuality, et al.That's what the First Amendment means. It means that government policy must be secular, even if its members are motivated by the sacred. That's how we protect our religious freedoms. No, it was founded on the US Constitution, which includes principles counter to many Christian teachings, like the First Amendment.

Who was it addressed to?When have the churches made it clear that that means everybody?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

from Page Not Found | Ten Commandments with Purpose | GodsTenLaws.com:

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The primary purpose of the law is to restore RELATIONSHIP between God and man and establish the foundation for RELATIONSHIP with one another. The commandments are like signposts guiding us on the road to this end.

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from No webpage found at provided URL: http://tn.essortment.com/commandmentlist_rrbp.htm:

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Many Christians will say that the You shall nots are too negative and that we need to be more positive since the revelations and teachings of Jesus. These ten teachings are not the old clothes of Judaism, but have been relevant to human relationships throughout the ages.

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These words of Jesus do not cancel the commandments; they focus them and point to the purpose to which they all lead. The point of the Ten Commandments is this: I am God and these are the rules I want you to follow.

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from No webpage found at provided URL: http://injil.org/TWOR/38.html:

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Perhaps someone says, "Wait a minute, my friend! I'm a good person! I am not like others who steal, cheat, and commit adultery!" If that is your attitude, clearly you have not yet fathomed God's holiness! What you need to know is that, on the Day of Judgment, God will not compare you with your sinful neighbor. He will compare you with His holy and perfect law, which states: "Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it!" (Jam. 2:10) The God who says: "You shall not commit adultery" also says, "You shall not lie!" Thus, if you have not committed adultery, but have told just one lie, then you have transgressed the whole law (see James 2:11) and cannot enter the presence of God in Paradise, because the Scripture says: "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful." (Rev. 21:27) What is certain is that we can never please God through our own efforts!

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No mention, in three webpages, of the Ten Commandments being specifically addressed only to the Hebrew people. While I realize that excerpts of three web pages cannot hope to encompass the totality of views within the Christian church, I can only tell you that from my own experience from both Catholic and Protestant churches, these represent the mainstream view - that the ten commandments aren't some historical remnant directed at the Hebrew people and irrelevant to modern Christianity, but rather, God's injunctions to all human beings.You, on the other hand, are the first person I've ever heard suggest that the Ten Commandments don't apply to everybody. If that's the case, then why do I see billboards from "God" telling me that they do?You guys have seen these, right? Now they're on bumber stickers...

Actually, the sites you quoted seem to support my position.Let me begin by summerizing what I have said. If this summary is incorrect, please try to correct it.I said that the Ten Commandments were given to the Hebrews.I said they are commandments from the God of the Hebrews.Now the Judaic faiths include the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims. And that is where the Ten Commandments play their primary part.I have said that they are good guidelines for all others.I have never said that they are irrelevant to modern Christianity, or for that matter to anyone. In fact I have said that they are Commandments given by GOD to the Hebrews, and good guidelines for all.Can you find people who hold extreme views about such things? Of course. There are quite a few members right here that can, do and will maintain that if you do not follow their particular interpretation of Christianity, you are a bad, bad person. But I and most Christian faiths do not take that extreme position. In fact, the whole Ecumenical Movement runs 180^o counter to that position.As to the bumper stickers, I see quite a few Bush/Cheney bumper stickers as well.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I may have been Christian twice over, but I'm not Jewish. If the Ten Commandments were just for the Hebrews, they wouldn't have applied to me. Where above did you see them referred to as "guidelines"?Look, I even quoted a guy that specifically refutes your position:

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These ten teachings are not the old clothes of Judaism, but have been relevant to human relationships throughout the ages.

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It doesn't get any clearer. The Ten Commandments are commandments to everybody, not just commandments to the Jews and suggestions to everyone else. You're free to disagree, but if you believe that your position represents the mainstream of ecumenical doctrine, then it's your turn to try to support that.

Read what it says, Kermee. Relevant. Relevant. Just what I've been saying.After you read YOUR sources, read what I've been saying. Christianity, like Islam, is a Judaic faith. All three acknowledge the Old Testament as a base. The Ten Commandments, in this case those from Exodus 20, are part of that base.Kermee, so far what I believe has been demonstrated is that there is no conflict between the Ten Commandments and the 1^st. Amendment.In addition, I believe I have shwon pretty clearly that the Ten Commandments were directed by the Hebrew God to the Hebrews, and by extension to the Judaic Faiths.However, none of those have anything to do with the thread. If you would like to discuss those particular side issues, start another thread. Otherwise, let's see if we can wander back towards the topic.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not just the old clothes of Judaism.I mean, I don't understand how it gets any clearer than that. If you're having problems with statements in plain English, then communication isn't going to occur between us, and it's time for us to agree to disagree, or whatever. Right, they apply to everyone the tenants of Christianity apply to, which again, is every human being. Jesus didn't just die for Christians, he died for everybody's sins. Likewise, the Ten Commandments are God's commandments for all men, not just Hebrew men. The First Amendment exists because the framers recognized religous plurality as fundamental human right. The Bible, through the Ten Commandments, consideres religious plurality an affront to God, and against his will.It literally is that simple. They apply to every human that will die and that God will judge; that is, every human being.You've got it backwards. It's not that the commandments apply only to the Hewbrews, or now that you've shifted the goalposts, the Judaic faiths, or God's worshippers. It's that, if you don't follow the commandments, you're not with God. And if you're not with God, then you're with the Devil, or whatever.The Bible's pretty clear. The Ten Commandments are supposed to be followed by all humans, because all humans are supposed to be God's followers, at their own peril. God doesn't just say "hey, the Christians and Jews are with me; Kali and Zeus can take care of the rest." God says "I'm the only God; if you're not with me, there's no one that can help you." I don't see how you can get anything from that except that the Ten Commandments are supposed to apply to everybody, because everybody is supposed to follow God. Heh, easy enough to say after you've said your piece.

Start a thread on the other subjects and I'll be happy to discuss them with you.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion