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Author | Topic: Can God lie? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Further, where do you get the idea that Satan is not a Biblical reality? he is, but not in the sense we think of him. he's one of god's angels, possibly a son of god (see job). he serves the will of god by testing mankind. it's an absolutely wrong reading to assume that god is good and satan is evil, the two being in opposition. god is both, and neither. personally, i have faith that everything serves a greater purpose, even apparent evils. and so i have no problem with god lying for our own good. like i said, who am i to judge god? but the text is simply contradictory. genesis is filled with evidence of god changing his mind too. look at sodom or the flood. numbers and samuel may say he doesn't do it, but genesis says he does.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
arachnophilia writes: OK..I can respect that YOU respect God without acknowledging the Bible...but without the Bible, how do you even know if you are acknowledging the right God? Now I know that there is only One, but there are also numerous wannabe spirits masquerading behind many false belief systems. If you believe that God can lie, and can do whatever He wants to do, how do you know that the inner voice that you hear is God? I believe that the Book was given as a standard...so that we would know who the real God is. Seeing as how the early Believers had no book, the only other method of validation is to gather in prayer/fellowship with likeminded belivers. Likeminded means "of the same Spirit". You can't have some all inclusive room of religious truth seekers and have the same spirit. Try it...I know. In this world, there are competing spirits. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is the right one and the only one with any real power. How do you tell Him apart from the other ones?
which are you more attached to, the bible being the word of god, or god not lying? no, you can't have both. personally, i'm not attached to either. if god wants to lie, who am i to judge god?
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2764 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Phatboy writes: I believe that the Book was given as a standard...so that we would know who the real God is. Why do you believe this? I'm sure you didn't get the idea from the book itself. In the book, God is known by his power.
quote: In this world, there are competing spirits. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is ... the only one with any real power. How do you tell Him apart from the other ones? Haven't you have already answered the question? You tell him apart from the other ones by his power. Didn't Saint Peter admonish believers to ... test the spirits? db
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
OK..I can respect that YOU respect God without acknowledging the Bible...but without the Bible, how do you even know if you are acknowledging the right God? how do you know with the bible? i don't see how it makes any difference. i've read my share of religious texts, and if i just based it on the literature, i'd have been a buddhist a long time ago. the bible is a good perspective on god, but the bible is not god.
If you believe that God can lie, and can do whatever He wants to do i'm not totally sure i do. i don't care much either way, but i'm leaning towards him being mostly omnipotent and being able to lie.
how do you know that the inner voice that you hear is God? i don't know. it's called faith.
I believe that the Book was given as a standard...so that we would know who the real God is. but there is nothing standard about the book. there is no one canon, and no one book by one author. it is a collection of collections, all by different authors, different sources, and at different times. it is very inconsistent. but on some level, your statement may be true.
Seeing as how the early Believers had no book, the only other method of validation is to gather in prayer/fellowship with likeminded belivers. Likeminded means "of the same Spirit". please research the history of the early christian church. there was no unification until about 300 ad, when a canon was compiled. but they all had books, and all congregations of likeminded believers. some of those churches were systematically removed and executed for heresy.
Obviously, the Holy Spirit is the right one and the only one with any real power. How do you tell Him apart from the other ones? that's not so obvious, my friend. i used to go to pentacostal churches. people would get "drunk" with the holy spirit, roll around on the floor, talk gibberish, and see stuff. they would tell me that god had promised things, but they never came true. is that holy spirit at work, or are they being duped?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Aracnophilia writes: Yeah, me too. I experienced a few times that were definitely out of the ordinary, but how would I know if it was not merely mass hypnosis? I am sure that there was a spiritual realm involved, but which spirit it was I DO NOT Know. I grew stronger as a Believer during the quiet times when I was certain that I felt Gods presence. I still operate at that level of faith...and I rarely even feel the presence any more. I am growing stronger despite lack of emotional confirmation. I used to go to pentacostal churches. people would get "drunk" with the holy spirit, roll around on the floor, talk gibberish, and see stuff. they would tell me that god had promised things, but they never came true. is that holy spirit at work, or are they being duped? This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-04-2004 02:56 AM
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
me too.
but how would I know if it was not merely mass hypnosis? i'm positive it was. because, try as i might, i could never be a part of it. similarly, i don't find alcohol or drugs fun, and the placebo effect fails miserably on me. i just have a rational analytical mind that doesn't allow blips of schizophrenia.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Heh heh...I remember one such service in particular. It was during the time of the so called "Toronto Blessing" whereby everyone was supposed to get drunk in the spirit and laugh uncontrollably. The guest speaker began doing it, as did the Pastor and the Elders. As if on cue, everyone else began "feeling" drunk and laughing, and all I did was sit there and observe this insane display of mimicing behavior. I was never the guy who would raise his hands when the speaker would say "lift up your hands!" I always waited until I wanted to do something before I did it. You won't catch me at the airport selling daisies!
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Amlodhi Inactive Member |
quote: quote:
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
and all I did was sit there and observe this insane display of mimicing behavior. i have to agree in part with amlodhi's post in response to this. such displays made me question my faith for a long time.
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DD2014 Junior Member (Idle past 3887 days) Posts: 17 From: Cali, USA Joined: |
quote: But if Got is all powerful (ie. created the univrse, flooded the whole world, and destroyed sodom and gomorrah.) you would think he could get a few people who were not total morons to write down his instructions to salvation. Edited by DD2014, : No reason given.
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adelpit346 Junior Member (Idle past 5099 days) Posts: 11 Joined: |
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Edited by adelpit346, : added more info:') Edited by AdminSlev, : No reason given.
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anthonylau  Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 5087 days) Posts: 20 Joined: |
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michaelrobin Junior Member (Idle past 4868 days) Posts: 3 From: Tempe Joined: |
The biblical text clearly states that it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore anything else written in the holy scriptures never refutes this statement in anyway. You must understand that there are some things God can't do, and lying is one of them. I hope this helps you..
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The biblical text clearly states that it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore anything else written in the holy scriptures never refutes this statement in anyway. You must understand that there are some things God can't do, and lying is one of them. I hope this helps you. But there is that little business of the global flood, that clearly never happened as described. Oops?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
You must understand that there are some things God can't do, and lying is one of them. Not much of a god then is it. Seems to be pretty limited. Are you just going to assert things and provide no evidence or argument for you position?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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