Existence of Noah's Ark

I thought it was made from gopher wood.

RiverRat: If we're to cross-reference your "20 feet" common sense, we'll need more data. First off, how structurally sound it is, is highly dependant on the mass of the animals inside, which also changes the number of decks and the amount of load the decks need to support (which further change the required structural strength). So, what is the mass of the animals, and how is their mass distributed among different decks?Secondly, cypress wood isn't going to be your structural limitation; pitch is. You'd be very lucky to get a shear strength of 200 kpa with pitch, compared to 5000-10000 kpa for most softwoods (like cypress).Are you going to grace us with a common sense number for how long you think it would take to drain Lake Mead, so we can prove it wrong using that thing you seem to hate - "science"?

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"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Not really. If it takes 20 feet to float it it takes 20 feet to float it whether it's still or moving.Agreed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

First off, I was discussing this with jar, who accepted the common sense figure.Drop the common sense thing already would ya?
Its through common sense I think about these things, then its through science I would like to prove them, or disprove them. Don't worry I won't be heart broken if I'm wrong. I expect to be wrong, but I need the help of others to figure it out.I don't have to give a common sense #, its longer than 1 min isn't it?

I want a "common sense" number from you; my goal is to prove to you that common sense, which you keep relying on for your arguments, completely fails on complex problems.BTW, does anyone here have Maple? I'm doing the "Hoover dam" problem right now, and there's an integral that I'd rather not have to dig out my old calculus books to have to figure out how to solve This message has been edited by Rei, 09-27-2004 06:58 PM

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"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

If the force of the water surpasses the static coeffecient of friction, it will move. But for purposes of this discussion, lets use 20 feet.

I do not rely on my common sense to accuratly solve complex problems. You however feel that I do, why? Because I made a comment about not agreeing with something that a jerk scientists said.You are trying to prove something to me, that I already know. Give it up already.If you want to calculate in relation to my theory, then make sure you add a rainfall rate of 4" per hour behind the dam. Then calculate what the level of water would be. Don't forget ground water build up.
In other words, the ground will have no absorbtion, so use the numbers for concrete surface.

Okay, let's go on to the next step.We need to have 20 feet of water at the location of the Ark and for a considerable distance around it.Will you agree that the flooded area has to be at least as far as anyone can see or travel (using the methods common back in Noah's day) in a reasonable period of time (less time than the 40 days and 40 nights of rain)?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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They perfect sense except that they have nothing to do with what I am saying.

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Actuall, they have everything to do with what you are saying.

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If I cleary state that my theory doesn't require anymore water than what is here already, then why would rhain proceed to waste my time calculating how much water it takes to fill up a sphere or a bath tub.

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The water inb the tub represents the finite amount of water on the planet Earth.The object in the tub represents a land mass that is not completely covered with water; i.e. dry land is exposed.He is asking you to submerge the object in the tub completely under water using [i]only the water in the tub[/b].If you pick up water in a bucket, you will lower the water in the tub. If you pour the water over the object, the water will run over the exposed "dry land" on the object, then run off the object into the tub.Therefore, he illustrates easily that without adding more water than you started with, you cannot submerge the object for 20 minutes.So, your theory is shown to be incorrect.

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Answer it yourself.

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OK.The lake would empty and the river valey would flood, with the river water returning to pre-dam levels.

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How long would it take for the lake to empty out, and during that time, what would be the level of the lake vs. the level of the river?

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I don't know. When the dam broke to cause the Johnstown flood, the entire 450 acre lake emptied in a few minutes.There was no long-lasting flood. It was a wall of water that came and went.

If you're not relying on "common sense" for your solutions, then what are you relying on? Because you keep supporting theories on some incredibly complex problems.

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"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Yes, I guess so.
I have to see what your getting at, you can go a little faster.

I'm not supporting anything. We are going to figure that out together.
My common sense could only bring me so far.
How does a theory start? Tell me please.

Maybe, but I've found that if we go one step at a time and make sure we are agreed about each step then it makes it quicker overall.So we both agree that we need 20 feet of water over an area larger than anyone could normally travel in 40 days at the time of the alleged flood.So what mechanism could you propose that would allow that?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Since the earth is 75% water, and 25% land. You would need only to lower the oceans a little less than 7feet to cover the land with 20 feet of water.What we want to do is figure out the cycle of rain, and how much rain it would take to keep a flood going. If that turned out to have some wieght, we would then need to make an accurate model of the earth, to see what exactly would happen if it rained like that. Just how fast would it all drain off, and how far would it back up. Add that with the a water from the polar caps, and you might have something.A bath tub is a bad analogy. It does not represent the mass of land, and the amount of time it takes for run-off to occur.Let me ask you a question. If it rains in Kansas, how long does it take before that rain water reaches the ocean?

Except that that uncovers an assload of new land.