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Author Topic:   Breaking Laws of Thermodynamics
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 40 (140320)
09-06-2004 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jazzns
09-06-2004 2:23 AM


Re: Does the 1st Law even apply pre big bang?
If all matter was in the singularity then all energy was also there. Remember that matter is simply potential energy, a valid form of energy.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by sidelined, posted 09-06-2004 12:03 PM jar has replied
 Message 34 by lfen, posted 09-06-2004 1:10 PM jar has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 32 of 40 (140325)
09-06-2004 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
09-06-2004 11:45 AM


Re: Does the 1st Law even apply pre big bang?
jar
Mass not matter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 09-06-2004 11:45 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-06-2004 12:15 PM sidelined has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 40 (140332)
09-06-2004 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by sidelined
09-06-2004 12:03 PM


Re: Does the 1st Law even apply pre big bang?
Agreed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 34 of 40 (140344)
09-06-2004 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
09-06-2004 11:45 AM


Re: Does the 1st Law even apply pre big bang?
Jar,
It's been too long and when I find time I want to go back and read more Hawkings. I believe he has since come up with another scenario that has some sort of indeterminancy as an initial state.
However the point I wish to make in this post is that the singularity is perfect and balanced, all this energy is stably balanced. For the universe to expand into what it is today only one thing is necessary--imperfection! This perfect symmetry must somehow become imbalanced and then voila! the show begins.
Hawking's theory is a brilliant tour de force as he encompassed so much physics but at this point it's a theory so I can't state that is how the universe began, but I do find that notion of the initial imperfection as the casual event elegant and mysterious.
From a deist standpoint the divine genesis is the introduction of asymmetry in the singularity.
lfen

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 35 of 40 (140345)
09-06-2004 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ThermodynamicLawBreaker
09-04-2004 10:21 PM


TDL
yes, but the law also states that "enery cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from one form into another. But then how does energy exist if it cannot be created.
What this means is that the total energy content of the universe does not change.When we make measurements of the state of a phenomena as it undergoes change and take into account all the changes there is a numerical quantity that remains the same which we call energy.Now just what energy is no one knows but this numerical quantity that we measure remains constant and therefore conserved.
The existence of energy is not in question since we can measure it but the forces of nature {electromagnetism,strong force,weak force.and gravity} are the forms by which energy manifests itself in all these different ways that we observed.{heat energy,chemical energy, potential energy,nuclear energy, radioactive decay energy,fusion energy etc.}
Does this help clarify things?

What delightful hosts they are-Love and Laughter!
Lingeringly I turn away at this late hour,yet glad
They have not withheld from me their high hospitality.
So at the door I pause to press their hands once more
And say,"So fine a time!Thank you both...and goodbye.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 36 of 40 (140421)
09-06-2004 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ThermodynamicLawBreaker
09-04-2004 10:21 PM


bump for Thermodynamic Law Breaker

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 37 of 40 (140527)
09-06-2004 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by RAZD
09-06-2004 4:26 PM


Re: bump for Thermodynamic Law Breaker
I keep seeing this "bump for someone's alias". What does this mean? Is this a request for them to come back to a thread?
puzzled,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 09-06-2004 4:26 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by RAZD, posted 09-06-2004 10:38 PM lfen has not replied
 Message 39 by AdminAsgara, posted 09-06-2004 10:39 PM lfen has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 38 of 40 (140535)
09-06-2004 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by lfen
09-06-2004 10:11 PM


Re: bump for Thermodynamic Law Breaker
yep to come back and answer the issues raised in the linked post. It also returns some posts to the OT ...

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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2324 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 39 of 40 (140536)
09-06-2004 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by lfen
09-06-2004 10:11 PM


Re: bump for Thermodynamic Law Breaker
A "bump" is a post to bring a thread back to the top of the forum list. A bump FOR someone is an attempt to keep a topic on top so someone will see it and return to the thread.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 40 of 40 (140538)
09-06-2004 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by AdminAsgara
09-06-2004 10:39 PM


Re: bump for Thermodynamic Law Breaker
Thank you both!
lfen

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