Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 7/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is a Liberal, and What is a Conservative?
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 254 (138520)
08-31-2004 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by crashfrog
08-30-2004 10:32 PM


Re: Just to clarify
quote:
Seth McFarlane is not on Third Rock, nor does John Lithgow provide any voices for The Family Guy.
Noooooooooo!!! But you did know who I was talking about, good.
quote:
No, Schraf supports her statements with evidence, and has never, to my knowledge, abandoned threads simply because she wasn't "winning".
I've seen Buz do that a lot, though.
I just don't see the point of hounding buzsaw about this at all...
quote:
I'm not sure we've seen any evidence that the test is truly biased, though. For instance, everybody who's taken it so far winds up pegged down in Lefty land, including me.
If the test was biased in favor of liberalism or whatever, wouldn't our scores all have wound up near the zero, in the middle?
I have given 3 examples of why the test was biased is previous (the first) thread disscusing it.
No if the test wasn't biased we WOULD have been pegged in the middle, see it?

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 10:32 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by RAZD, posted 08-31-2004 5:52 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 122 by crashfrog, posted 08-31-2004 9:15 PM joshua221 has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 254 (138521)
08-31-2004 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by nator
08-31-2004 9:14 AM


Re: Just to clarify
Oh Goodie!

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by nator, posted 08-31-2004 9:14 AM nator has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 108 of 254 (138560)
08-31-2004 4:49 PM


Less sniping, more discussion please
Not directed just prophex.
Substance please.
Adminnemooseus
{Edit correction - Should have been "Not directed at just prophex". I am amazed that I managed to drop the "at". I stated such because people tend to get paranoid when my message is next after theirs, even if it is intended as a comment directed at a number of previous messages. Also note, I did NOT reply to a specific message.}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 09-01-2004 12:50 AM

Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
Thread Reopen Requests

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by joshua221, posted 08-31-2004 7:10 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 109 of 254 (138579)
08-31-2004 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by joshua221
08-31-2004 2:46 PM


Re: Just to clarify
No if the test wasn't biased we WOULD have been pegged in the middle, see it?
only if your views really are in the middle. I find a lot of conservatives (heck most people) think they are near the middle, usually because they are unaware of the people on the other extreme.
here in west michigan I know I am not in the middle as a liberal. when I go back to Massachusetts, then I feel back in the middle again, while conservatives in MA feel like a fish out of water.
remember too that a liberal in Mississippi is a conservative in Massachusetts.
you may be more conservative than you think you are.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by joshua221, posted 08-31-2004 2:46 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by joshua221, posted 08-31-2004 7:11 PM RAZD has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 110 of 254 (138585)
08-31-2004 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
08-31-2004 10:04 AM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
Madear, likely you also would've considered it boldly intrusive of me to try and represent your score by answering for you and pidgeonholing you into the slot of my pick.
Well, no, I don't think it would be intrusive for you to take the survey as if you were me. I really don't see how anybody could be offended. It's like somebody filling out a Cosmo survey as if they were someone else. I wanted to see how accurate I could be, and I think I probably did pretty well where your views were concerned. It's not like you haven't been consistent over the years in stating your rather black and white views, buz.
It would actually be interesting to see how your impression of my values and opinions match up against how I answered.
Feel free to answer as I might answer and we can see where I land.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-31-2004 05:11 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 08-31-2004 10:04 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 111 of 254 (138597)
08-31-2004 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by RAZD
08-30-2004 11:36 PM


Re: dig
quote:
you're a conservative if you think it is better to re-elect a bad president than to try a different one, unless the president is a democrat.
LOL
This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 08-31-2004 05:53 PM

-porcelain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by RAZD, posted 08-30-2004 11:36 PM RAZD has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 254 (138604)
08-31-2004 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Adminnemooseus
08-31-2004 4:49 PM


Re: Less sniping, more discussion please
Slight misunderstanding,
My brother seems to think "Not directed just prophex" means you are "dissing" me.
I thought it meant, not directed just to me. He thinks it means directed just to me.
What did you mean moose?

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-31-2004 4:49 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2004 12:16 AM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 138 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-01-2004 1:39 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 254 (138605)
08-31-2004 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by RAZD
08-31-2004 5:52 PM


Re: Just to clarify
I live in New York, The middle is where everyone strives to be isn't it? The middle is balanced. Not relativist.

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by RAZD, posted 08-31-2004 5:52 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by RAZD, posted 08-31-2004 9:53 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 254 (138608)
08-31-2004 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Loudmouth
08-31-2004 1:10 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
There are abuses, but that is hardly true of all companies. Of course, ANY time you have an organization, there is potential abuse or unethical actions. I have never claimed that such actions don't occur, or that they are proper. However, I will stand by my statement that most companies don't operate like that.
However, you are right in one regard, the oringal question does seem to pick out a bias of people if they favor a socialistic economy versus a capitalistic economy. The further we progress this debate, the clearer it becomes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Loudmouth, posted 08-31-2004 1:10 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Loudmouth, posted 08-31-2004 7:46 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 254 (138610)
08-31-2004 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Silent H
08-31-2004 2:09 PM


However, they didn't seperate them, they just mentioned companies. That was my issue with the wording. IF you want to ask about certain points, ask about them, but be clear.
As for income, the majority of income goes to costs (ie labor, buying parts, buying equipment, shipping, ect). Now, if you were to say that investors recieve the majority of the profit made by the company, you would be correct. Some would be assessed out for bonuses. Upper management incomes are still a buisness expense. However, on this issue, I agree with you. Boards of directors that are willing to overpay executives are foolish. However, corporations are privately held buisnesses, and if the owners, ie shareholders, wish to drive their buisness into the ground, so be it. Frankly, if I were a shareholder of Tyco, I would probably drag the manegement of Tyco into court for missappropraiting funds that should have either gone to buisness expansion or to the shareholders.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Silent H, posted 08-31-2004 2:09 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by nator, posted 09-01-2004 9:52 AM Darwin Storm has replied
 Message 167 by Silent H, posted 09-01-2004 3:44 PM Darwin Storm has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 254 (138612)
08-31-2004 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Darwin Storm
08-31-2004 7:18 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
However, you are right in one regard, the oringal question does seem to pick out a bias of people if they favor a socialistic economy versus a capitalistic economy. The further we progress this debate, the clearer it becomes.
And that is the purpose behind asking biased questions or using biased language. If you are a conservative you will bristle at the words "globalization" and a corporation's "duty to humanity". A liberal will probably say "damn right they should" and ignore the biased buzzwords that they themselves use. Even the authors of the survey pretty much admit that their survey asks biased questions, but in the long run that is what it is about, finding bias by using bias as bait.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-31-2004 7:18 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-31-2004 8:13 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 254 (138619)
08-31-2004 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Loudmouth
08-31-2004 7:46 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
I am just going to leave it as we disagree. I think the proposititions are unclear, and without detailed methodology for how various equations contribute to variuos scores, I shall remain skeptical. Its too hard for me to take seriuosly any statistic or survey without understanding the methodology and scoring behind them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Loudmouth, posted 08-31-2004 7:46 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Loudmouth, posted 08-31-2004 8:33 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 254 (138622)
08-31-2004 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Darwin Storm
08-31-2004 8:13 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
I am just going to leave it as we disagree. I think the proposititions are unclear, and without detailed methodology for how various equations contribute to variuos scores, I shall remain skeptical. Its too hard for me to take seriuosly any statistic or survey without understanding the methodology and scoring behind them.
I haven't taken it yet, but I don't expect it to be completely accurate. I am not making judgements, but I do find it interesting that conservatives have a tough time taking the survey for no other reason than the questions themselves. No one proposing that the survey is indicative of reality, at least from what I have read. I guess I will have to take the survey to save face.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-31-2004 8:13 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-31-2004 9:59 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 119 of 254 (138625)
08-31-2004 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 11:08 PM


I would disagree with the terminology of globalization.
Ok, but like I said, your objections lack merit, since they're based on definitions of "globalization" that are less specific than how the term is used by economists.
However, last I checked, humanity is not some amporhus entity and neither are corporations.
I don't recall where I said they were, or implied that.
"Humanity" is the set of all humans. "Corporations" are corporations. I don't understand what you consider "amorphorus" about these words, or unclear in regards to their terminology.
The question you must then ask is where do you want to see the benefits of such trade.
I want to see the benefits of trade for all humans ("humanity"), not simply benefits for the few and harm for many, many others.
However, I would also argue that modern corporations and industrialization also aid in the rapid production of cheap goods that can vastly help people, aka humanity, by meeting needs and services at a fraction the price it would without such buisness organizations.
Assuming a currency-barter market is the economic system in play, yes. Corporations benefit those who have money. I don't think that's in dispute.
But that's not "humanity". That's only some humans. Not everyone has money, and not every corporation or act of industrialization means cheaper goods. In many examples, goods become more expensive as a result of corporate control; for instance, the music industry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 11:08 PM Darwin Storm has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by nator, posted 09-01-2004 9:56 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 120 of 254 (138626)
08-31-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Mammuthus
08-31-2004 5:53 AM


In order to push down prices, a lot of labor intensive jobs are outsourced to places with no worker protection so that in effect, slave or indentured servant like conditions are used to produce the goods and other people benefit from the workers not being paid a living wage.
Right. People like Walmart because they cut labor costs and sell things at lower prices.
The problem is, the people who work at Walmart don't make enough money to shop at Walmart. So, even if prices race to the bottom, they still don't race fast enough to keep up with the commensurate decline in wage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Mammuthus, posted 08-31-2004 5:53 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024