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Author | Topic: What is a Liberal, and What is a Conservative? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
This reminds me of the relationship in the show "third rock from the sun" between the lady Mary and the guy who does the Family Guy voice for the baby. LOL Seth McFarlane is not on Third Rock, nor does John Lithgow provide any voices for The Family Guy.
You seem to be doing exactly what you are condemning buzsaw about... No, Schraf supports her statements with evidence, and has never, to my knowledge, abandoned threads simply because she wasn't "winning". I've seen Buz do that a lot, though.
Don't persecute buzsaw for not taking a biased test I'm not sure we've seen any evidence that the test is truly biased, though. For instance, everybody who's taken it so far winds up pegged down in Lefty land, including me. If the test was biased in favor of liberalism or whatever, wouldn't our scores all have wound up near the zero, in the middle?
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Darwin Storm Inactive Member |
I would disagree with the terminology of globalization. The world economy has been essentially globalized since before ww2. What you would term globalization is just a progression of economic integration. Reduction in tariffs and such is a current trend, but hardly the only one. Of course, globalization, as the term might imply also, seems to mean a wider and more rapid dissemination of information across teh globe, at least to the 25 to 30 percent of the population that has access to modern communications. However, the term is not used with precise definitions, and thus has different meaning depending on which group is using it.
Secondly, you seem to refer to corporations as seperate entities. Some groups work ethically, others do not. However, last I checked, humanity is not some amporhus entity and neither are corporations. I suggest that you clarify your terminology. The question you must then ask is where do you want to see the benefits of such trade. The essence of any trade is to exchange goods, usually money for products. However, trade is hardly evil, and neither are coroprations. Like any form of human organization, invention, or endevour, there are postive and negative consequeces. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and in some cases, it is quite valid. However, I would also argue that modern corporations and industrialization also aid in the rapid production of cheap goods that can vastly help people, aka humanity, by meeting needs and services at a fraction the price it would without such buisness organizations.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
you're a conservative if you think it is better to re-elect a bad president than to try a different one, unless the president is a democrat.
you're a liberal if you think it is better to elect someone new than to re-elect a bad president. It is never too late to stop going down the wrong road. heh.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations If ecomonomic globalization is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity by state controlled enterprise rather than by private trans-national corporate enterprise? The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6474 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
I think another aspect of globalization is in the form of ownership. There has been a switch from state owned or locally traded companies to small time stockholders and international investors. Thus, a "German" company may have a majority American, British, etc. stock ownership.
quote: There is a downside to this as well. In order to push down prices, a lot of labor intensive jobs are outsourced to places with no worker protection so that in effect, slave or indentured servant like conditions are used to produce the goods and other people benefit from the workers not being paid a living wage. So I would say the benefits are confined mostly to the developed western countries.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I agree with your general attitude toward social surveys, they certainly can bias results by the nature of the questions.
HOWEVER, this is a survey about one's personal preferences and so they are pretty much quoting biased views and grading your political orientation based on your reaction to them. This does not force one to choose something they life because it is worded in a way that make you feel bad for making a selection. Indeed your reactions, and buz's seem to indicate you should have a much easier time answering the questions than I did, because such extremist language can often be read one way or another and I can't say which direction I fall on it. Obviously they COULD have used neutral position statements and gauged where you stand from departure from the neutral, but there is no problem in measuring departure from varying extreme positions. I have to say I would have preferred more neutral language because it would have made things clearer what was being asked. Yours was definitely clearer, though I think you were wrong in identifying consumers and producers as the proper choice. Producers would include those actually MAKING products, and I think this was supposed to suggest just the financial investors and corporate leadership of the producers. That would not make it biased, but create a neutral sounding choice. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
It is never too late to stop going down the wrong road. I suppose your statements could be reworded to fit the analogies the GOP uses. Conservative: It is better not to switch horses mid course... (especially when it's our time honored horse). Liberal: It is when he's he keeps going the wrong way. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Fine, but I think you are overreacting. Everybody knows that you haven't taken the survey. And I think I was pretty accurate, don't you? Aren't you pretty much in line with Bush, Ariel Sahron, and Margaret Thatcher?
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Oh, I have done this on a couple of occasions with Holmes, but never, ever with Buzsaw.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Conservative: It is better not to switch horses mid course... (especially when it's our time honored horse). I thought the "tricky-dicky" version was "Don't change dicks in the middle of a screw" except in this case it is rape. heh we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
And I think I was pretty accurate, don't you? Aren't you pretty much in line with Bush, Ariel Sahron, and Margaret Thatcher? I don't know. Likely I'd answer many of the questions differently than some or all of the above and a number of questions I could not honestly give a yes or no answer. Madear, likely you also would've considered it boldly intrusive of me to try and represent your score by answering for you and pidgeonholing you into the slot of my pick.
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Darwin Storm Inactive Member |
Well, I both agree and disagree with your stance (actually various points. First off, multinational companies aren't inherentaly a bad trend. The abuses by a few are teh same abuses we have seen when companies were strictly nationalistic entities. So the real complaint should be, do we structure and regulate companies properly with the law, or should their be changes.
As for your second statement, the whole idea of making things en mass is to drive the price down (economy of scale), and thus make products available to more than just the wealthy. As for outsourcing, that is a mixed bad. I agree that countries that use slave labor, etc, should be sanctioned, but what about countries whos people are free but poor? Isnt the reason outsourcing works is because of a sever descrepency in economies? Providing jobs and investment to these coutries may reduce temporarily some job creation in wealthier countries, but there are positive effects as well. First off, such economies gain enormously (often the outsourced jobs pay such people several time what they make in their own economy). Secondly, the investment expands their economy and wealth, thus developing them as a market (which in the future increases jobs for everyone since the marketplace expands).Now, I believe that outsourcing shouldn't be unregulated, and I also believe that we currently don't have enough understanding of the economic impact ( on both sides of the issue).
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Darwin Storm Inactive Member |
Yours was definitely clearer, though I think you were wrong in identifying consumers and producers as the proper choice. Producers would include those actually MAKING products, and I think this was supposed to suggest just the financial investors and corporate leadership of the producers. Well, companies provide jobs and require the services of those making and designing the products, those that market them, those that provide ivnestments, etc. Heck, a good portion of the workforce is employeed by such companies. You can't just talk about companies like the only people who are part of them is upper managment and investors. Seems like a false characterization.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: Wouldn't you say that at least philosophically the employees at lower positions are looked at differently than the fat cats at the top of the corporate ladder? I don't remember Tyco having an ice sculpture that pissed out expensive vodka surrounded by winged dancers at the company picnic. While I may not be addressing the consumer/producer topic I am addressing the original, and nebulous, "betterment of humanity" in the original question.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
You can't just talk about companies like the only people who are part of them is upper managment and investors. Seems like a false characterization. See, now you're just being silly. The statement could have been made more value neutral, but it doesn't have to make no statement at all. The point was to get YOUR reaction of where the fruits of greater global integration of business should end up. They CAN separate the upper management and the investors, from the rest, to ask what your opinion is. As a separate question though, are you seriously suggesting to me that investors and the upper management are NOT the major recipients of income from major national corporations, much less the focus of whose interests these corporations are serving? holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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