Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is a Liberal, and What is a Conservative?
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 254 (138259)
08-30-2004 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
08-30-2004 7:22 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
duplicate post *deleted*
This message has been edited by Darwin Storm, 08-30-2004 07:44 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 7:22 PM jar has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 254 (138265)
08-30-2004 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 8:43 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
The original reference to economic globalization is silly, since most markets, due to transportation and communications, are already globalized to some degree. Additionally, humanity is such a pathetically vague term (since governments, corporations, individuals, dictorships, blah blah blah are all organizations of humans, ie humanity. Sloppy terminology at best.)
Totally agree.
quote:
Additionally, whenever you are talking about trade, the two primary groups involved are always producers and comsumers, (and that is true for inviduals or organziations.). Just me, but I think my question makes more sense.
What about employees? Where do they fit in? Should companies be allowed to cut jobs without warning in order to increase their profits? Should companies ruin retirement funds knowingly (Enron) in order to give CEO's the golden parachutes they require? Should safety and fair pay be considered a universal (world wide) right? I think this is also what the original question was trying to portray.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 8:43 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:05 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 254 (138268)
08-30-2004 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by RAZD
08-30-2004 1:36 AM


Re: WWJD according to Hoyle
I am saying that the questions inherantly are baised. That is, most of the questions, in the manner they are asked, provide a postive or negative bias to the questions. Of course, the easiest way to coax certain results out of a survey is the generate either unclear questions, or to provide questions with contextual or semantic bias.
As for my results, I feel into
economic right: 4.00 Libertarian -4.41
BTW why the should I care what some 2000 year old corpse thinks when the obvious answer is nothing, the dude is dead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by RAZD, posted 08-30-2004 1:36 AM RAZD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:03 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 79 of 254 (138269)
08-30-2004 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 8:59 PM


That is, most of the questions, in the manner they are asked, provide a postive or negative bias to the questions.
Isn't that the point? Wouldn't the questions have to be biased in order for the survey to detect your bias?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 8:59 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:20 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 254 (138270)
08-30-2004 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Loudmouth
08-30-2004 8:54 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
What about employees? Where do they fit in? Should companies be allowed to cut jobs without warning in order to increase their profits? Should companies ruin retirement funds knowingly (Enron) in order to give CEO's the golden parachutes they require? Should safety and fair pay be considered a universal (world wide) right? I think this is also what the original question was trying to portray.
Employees, in operating in their jobs, are producers. However, you are no longer addressing the issue of the importance of consumer/producer. You are now asking if the current coroporate structures are ethically and effeciently run. That is a whole seperate conversational debate. There are numerous laws that regulate corporations that vary from country to country. A debate along these lines would be long, but an excellent topic. However, hardly relates to the question of where the goal/emphesis should be placed as we continue to ingrate teh world economically.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Loudmouth, posted 08-30-2004 8:54 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Loudmouth, posted 08-31-2004 1:10 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 254 (138275)
08-30-2004 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by crashfrog
08-30-2004 9:03 PM


Obviously I wasn't clear in explaining the bias. I am not talking about differenting the opinion of the person taking the survey, I am talking about the bias introduced by the manner in which the questions are asked. I already pointed out the faults with the first question:
"If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations."
Or how about:
The growing fusion between information and entertainment is a worrying contribution to the public's shrinking attention span.
First off, what the hell are they talking about a fusion of information and entertainment? Are they talking about the new media in which entertainment is dissemenated? ie television, radio ect.
Or are they commenting on traditionaly news and information sources are being alterted to become more entertaining. Hell, all enteraintment involves information (visual, audio, tacticle, ect). So , the first part of the question is non-sensical.
Also, the question clearly implies, regardless of the first part, that people's attention span is decreasing. Huh? There may be anecdotal evidence, but please show me a scientific study. The question makes an assumption here, which if inccorect, completely invalidates teh entire question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:03 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Asgara, posted 08-30-2004 9:26 PM Darwin Storm has not replied
 Message 83 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 9:26 PM Darwin Storm has not replied
 Message 84 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:28 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 82 of 254 (138276)
08-30-2004 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 9:20 PM


Also, the question clearly implies, regardless of the first part, that people's attention span is decreasing. Huh? There may be anecdotal evidence, but please show me a scientific study. The question makes an assumption here, which if inccorect, completely invalidates teh entire question
While I'm not disagreeing with your take on the questions, if you don't think peoples' attention span is decreasing wouldn't that mean that you disagree or strongly disagree with the proposition as stated?

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:20 PM Darwin Storm has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 254 (138277)
08-30-2004 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 9:20 PM


What they are trying to do is get you to ask those very questions, as well as others.
To think.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:20 PM Darwin Storm has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 84 of 254 (138281)
08-30-2004 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 9:20 PM


I am talking about the bias introduced by the manner in which the questions are asked.
Yeah, I just don't see the bias in either of those questions - to me, they ask very factual questions and describe very real scenarios.
The question makes an assumption here, which if inccorect, completely invalidates teh entire question.
Well, if you don't believe that the public's attention span is decreasing, why not just put "strongly disagree"? Wouldn't that constitute disagreement with the question?
I don't see the bias. I see the asking of questions from different positions on the ideological scale; which is exactly the point of the quiz.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:20 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Coragyps, posted 08-30-2004 9:34 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 86 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:38 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 85 of 254 (138288)
08-30-2004 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by crashfrog
08-30-2004 9:28 PM


"Well, if you don't believe that the public's attention span is decreasing, why not just put "strongly disagree"?"
Yeah, and..... LOOK! A BUNNY RABBIT!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:28 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 254 (138290)
08-30-2004 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by crashfrog
08-30-2004 9:28 PM


Well, crash, surveys are hardly scientific (though some of the statistical methodoly can be). If the questions aren't clear and nuetral as possible, than the writers inherinatly influence the survey results. Its a fairly common trend, and is often why different survey by various newspapers can generate disparate results, especially the more biased the questions wording is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:28 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:41 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 87 of 254 (138291)
08-30-2004 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 9:38 PM


If the questions aren't clear and nuetral as possible, than the writers inherinatly influence the survey results.
But what they're measuring is your response to political ideology. I don't see how you could measure that with neutral questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:38 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:50 PM crashfrog has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 254 (138292)
08-30-2004 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by nator
08-30-2004 3:18 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
Gee, last time I checked I tend to support what I say with objective evidence quite a lot of the time.
Oh, right, I guess you wouldn't remember that because you tend to run away from our debates just about the time you have been backed into a corner with the facts.
Gosh, what a poor loser you are.
Remember, you don't win debates around here by whining and calling people you disagree with dishonest; you win them by presenting factually-supported, logical arguments.
This reminds me of the relationship in the show "third rock from the sun" between the lady Mary and the guy who does the Family Guy voice for the baby. LOL
You seem to be doing exactly what you are condemning buzsaw about...
whining
Yeah I dunno,
Dishonest? OR Loser?
Hmmm
quote:
True, but since you deign to complete the survey, you're free game as far as I'm concerned.
What is this ?
Don't persecute buzsaw for not taking a biased test, I'm pretty sure he has a good idea of where he stands.

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by nator, posted 08-30-2004 3:18 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 10:32 PM joshua221 has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 254 (138294)
08-30-2004 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by crashfrog
08-30-2004 9:41 PM


please read my post 75 and please tell me where I am wrong in my critque of that that question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 9:41 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by crashfrog, posted 08-30-2004 10:28 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 90 of 254 (138306)
08-30-2004 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Darwin Storm
08-30-2004 9:50 PM


please read my post 75 and please tell me where I am wrong in my critque of that that question.
Ok, well, your objection to the term "globalization" doesn't seem to have a great deal of merit; that word has a very real economic meaning and refers, as far as I'm aware, to the trends that lead to reduction in barriers to trade; not just simply global trade.
Moreover the question is correct in that it draws a distinction between corporate motivations and the good of humanity; the purpose of a corporation is to maximise shareholder profit, not improve conditions for humanity. In fact in so much as profit requires the accumulation of resources, and resources are not infinite, maximising shareholder profit means convincing people to give you resources. That's the essence of trade, of course.
In short I find it a fair question; the interests of enormous multi-national corporations are not generally aligned with truly positive outcomes for all humans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 9:50 PM Darwin Storm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 11:08 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024