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Author Topic:   What is a Liberal, and What is a Conservative?
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 254 (138142)
08-30-2004 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Silent H
08-30-2004 12:58 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
I agree strongly (pun intended) with buzsaw and Darwin Storm, the questions are biased...

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Silent H, posted 08-30-2004 12:58 PM Silent H has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 254 (138147)
08-30-2004 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Silent H
08-30-2004 12:58 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
While I question it's accuracy, I am unsure how you came to the conclusion of bias, especially by just looking at one page.
1. Several questions on page one seemed to implicate the Bush Admin foreign affairs in the Middleast.
2. Question one assumes and insinuates that trans-national private enterprise corporations do not serve humanity.
3. In ques 2 no matter how I answer, it portrays me as supporting either all or none of my country's policies.
4. 3 has nobody choosing country of birth and insinuates national pride to be foolish.
5. 4 casts a bad racist shadow on any who would recognize superior qualities of their respective races. For example, for blacks to recognize the known and statistical fact that their athletic abilities in such sports as boxing are superior to most other races, due to their natural physiology. The same would apply to American Indians who seem to excell all others as steeplejacks, Arabs and American Indians as rug weavers and so forth.
6. 5's problem is that the question is too relative a question for a yes or no answer.
Could you explain how you judged this, and why you felt one page was as good as the rest when each page had different topics and what appeared to be styles of question?
The survey would not let you view past page one without filling out page one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Silent H, posted 08-30-2004 12:58 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by RAZD, posted 08-30-2004 3:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 68 by Silent H, posted 08-30-2004 5:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 69 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 5:29 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 254 (138156)
08-30-2004 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by nator
08-30-2004 11:47 AM


Re: And the grid Buz?
Don't worry, buz, I went ahead and did the survey for you.
Thanks, but no thanks Schraf. Judging as to how you spin about everything else to suit your own whims, biases and purposes, your conclusion is moot anyhow since it may or may not come out as an accurate assessment.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-30-2004 01:50 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by nator, posted 08-30-2004 11:47 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by nator, posted 08-30-2004 3:18 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 64 of 254 (138162)
08-30-2004 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
08-30-2004 2:38 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
don't worry buz, we won't tell anyone what a racist totalitarian jingoist you are ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 2:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 65 of 254 (138171)
08-30-2004 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Buzsaw
08-30-2004 2:48 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
Thanks, but no thanks Schraf. Judging as to how you spin about everything else to suit your own whims, biases and purposes,
Gee, last time I checked I tend to support what I say with objective evidence quite a lot of the time.
Oh, right, I guess you wouldn't remember that because you tend to run away from our debates just about the time you have been backed into a corner with the facts.
Gosh, what a poor loser you are.
Remember, you don't win debates around here by whining and calling people you disagree with dishonest; you win them by presenting factually-supported, logical arguments.
It's not my fault you rarely manage to do this.
quote:
your conclusion is moot anyhow since it may or may not come out as an accurate assessment.
True, but since you deign to complete the survey, you're free game as far as I'm concerned.
Besides, wouldn't you say that you are in the same basic place, politically, as Sharon, Thatcher, and Bush, because thet's where I ended up plotting you.
I'd say that's pretty accurate, wouldn't you?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-30-2004 02:20 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 2:48 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 5:46 PM nator has replied
 Message 88 by joshua221, posted 08-30-2004 9:43 PM nator has not replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 66 of 254 (138172)
08-30-2004 3:19 PM


For those that are claiming bias as a reason for not doing the test... did anyone actually read the site? The FAQ? How the analysis is set up?
From the FAQ:
1. Some of the questions are slanted
Most of them are slanted ! Some right-wingers accuse us of a leftward slant. Some left-wingers accuse us of a rightward slant. But it's important to realise that this isn't a survey, and these aren't questions. They're propositions - an altogether different proposition. To question the logic of individual ones that irritate you is to miss the point. Some propositions are extreme, and some are more moderate. That's how we can show you whether you lean towards extremism or moderation on the Compass.
Some of the propositions are intentionally vague. Their purpose is to trigger buzzwords in the mind of the user, measuring feelings and prejudices rather than detailed opinions on policy.
Incidentally, our test is not another internet personality classification tool. The essence of our site is the model for political analysis. The test is simply a demonstration of it.
9. In some cases none of the four possible responses reflected my attitude
One expert in the field suggested that we restrict the responses to simply 'agree' and 'disagree'. But how many do you need? Ten? Twenty? If you choose the one that most nearly reflects your feeling, you'll get an accurate reading...even if it niggles.
10. You should have a "don't know" option
This makes it too easy for people to duck difficult issues. By forcing people to take a positive or negative stance, the propositions make people really evaluate their feelings. Often people find they wanted to select 'don't know' mainly because they'd never really thought about the idea.

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by AdminNosy, posted 08-30-2004 3:34 PM Asgara has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 67 of 254 (138177)
08-30-2004 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Asgara
08-30-2004 3:19 PM


T O P I C !!
There is now and "official" thread for this. Please copy your point to that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Asgara, posted 08-30-2004 3:19 PM Asgara has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 68 of 254 (138199)
08-30-2004 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
08-30-2004 2:38 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
Just to let you know, I am not in complete disagreement with your assessment of certain statements, but rather the implication of bias. Check out my reply to your post over in the new thread Nosy started for this topic.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 2:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 254 (138203)
08-30-2004 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
08-30-2004 2:38 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
The point is that you can agree or disagree with what the question postulates. If you believe the question is biased then you would disagree or strongly disagree with the statement.
So just take a position you believe reasonable.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 2:38 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 5:50 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 254 (138210)
08-30-2004 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by nator
08-30-2004 3:18 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
you win them by presenting factually-supported, logical arguments.
OK mother Schraf, but after this, I'd like you to allow me to represent myself when and if my opinion is given in surveys.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by nator, posted 08-30-2004 3:18 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by nator, posted 08-31-2004 9:06 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 254 (138211)
08-30-2004 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
08-30-2004 5:29 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
So just take a position you believe reasonable.
Why should I do this when neither a yes or no represents my position and why should I even participate in a biased survey? The ultimate result would be to promote the bias of the survey.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 5:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Silent H, posted 08-30-2004 6:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 73 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 7:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 72 of 254 (138226)
08-30-2004 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Buzsaw
08-30-2004 5:50 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
Why should I do this when neither a yes or no represents my position and why should I even participate in a biased survey? The ultimate result would be to promote the bias of the survey.
I answer that first question in my response to your reply in this thread, over in the thread opened for this topic.
In a way I also address the concluding statement. You would not promote the bias of the survey if you state that the results do not reflect your position and explain what the problems are.
That is what I did. I do not believe that "test" accurately gauged my political position in a truly objective sense, but I think it did an okay job putting me relative to others in a political spectrum.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 5:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 73 of 254 (138240)
08-30-2004 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Buzsaw
08-30-2004 5:50 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
Well, how should this question be reworded?
If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2004 5:50 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Loudmouth, posted 08-30-2004 7:42 PM jar has not replied
 Message 75 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 8:43 PM jar has not replied
 Message 76 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-30-2004 8:44 PM jar has not replied
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 08-31-2004 2:01 AM jar has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 254 (138247)
08-30-2004 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
08-30-2004 7:22 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
quote:
Well, how should this question be reworded?
"If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations"
I (not being Buz) would reword it "If economic globalisation is inevitable, should their profits go to all employees and towards philanthropy rather than to those at the top of the organization."
I think the original question is reflecting the tendancy (and not unfairly) for companies to think more about profits than the effects of company policy on the people who work or are affected by the corporation.
In general, conservatives and liberals, as the terms are used in the US, tend to focus on social and foreign policy issues rather than on fiscal issues. Liberals tend to think less about universal morals and more about personal freedoms while conservatives want to instill moral values into society through legislation. It is the difference between being able to make a choice about how to live one's life (liberal) and what choices should be made available to people (conservative).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 7:22 PM jar has not replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 254 (138258)
08-30-2004 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
08-30-2004 7:22 PM


Re: And the grid Buz?
How about rewording it such as:
If economic integration continues globally, should its goal be to serve the interests of consumers or producers?
The original reference to economic globalization is silly, since most markets, due to transportation and communications, are already globalized to some degree. Additionally, humanity is such a pathetically vague term (since governments, corporations, individuals, dictorships, blah blah blah are all organizations of humans, ie humanity. Sloppy terminology at best.) The question really doesn't address the benifit to people at all. Additionally, whenever you are talking about trade, the two primary groups involved are always producers and comsumers, (and that is true for inviduals or organziations.). Just me, but I think my question makes more sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 7:22 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Loudmouth, posted 08-30-2004 8:54 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
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