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Author | Topic: New Book: Kerry ‘Unfit for Command’ | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
Chiroptera, I find it interesting it may or may not be in the Constitution, apparently Thomas Jefferson, declared this message to all the world, that God is the author of those rights (implying the bill of rights), and not president, King, nor supreme court justice abridge those rights, etc...
P.S. I sure hope your wrong that those rights can be amended out of the constitution, etc...The right to bear arms, to believe in God, to own property, freedom of speech, etc... http://www.dreamwater.com/raferty/pr_rights.html It was upon this same rock solid conviction that Thomas Jefferson declared to all the world: "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness [the right and control of property]. " That is, since God is the author of our Rights - no King or President, no House of Lords or Senate, no House of Commons or House of Representative, no Supreme Court or unelected bureaucrat, can ever abridge those rights. This message has been edited by whatever, 08-28-2004 06:53 PM This message has been edited by whatever, 08-28-2004 06:58 PM
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You do understand that the Creator that Jefferson was speaking of was not the Christian God. And that Jefferson, in particular, wanted to make sure that religion played no part in government.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Well, whatever, here is the text of Article V of the U.S. Constitution:
Article V The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate. Do you see any restrictions as to how amendments can be affected? As far as Thomas Jefferson, do you realize that his god was the deist god? Jefferson did not believe in the Christian God. At the beginning of the Declaration of Independence is the line:
It becomes necessary...to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them.... To someone who knows a little bit about the philosophy of the Enlightenment, the phase "Nature's God" is a tip off that they are not appealing to the Christian God. Notice how "the laws of nature" are given equal billing. At the end, we have the phrase
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. Again, in terms of the Enlightnment, this call on "Providence" is another way of avoiding calling on the Christian God. IF you still aren't convinced, Thomas Jefferson rewrote the Bible, removing the miracles and divinity of Jesus, and the supernatural elements. No, Jefferson certainly was not a believer in Christianity. In his view, human rights were an inalienable part of what it is to be human, but as a natural part of the human constitution, not something granted divinely.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
WHOA BOY!
Where do you get off adding "[the right and control of property]" to the Declaration of Independence? IT AINT THERE! There are only 3 rights listed as unalienable: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. PERIOD. The right to equality is given as "self evident" -- logically derived. The right of the people to abolish the government when it becomes destructive comes from the removal of the consent of the governed, ie from the people: http://www.archives.gov/...rters/declaration_transcript.html
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it All other rights, such as those in the "Bill of RIGHTS" (first ten amendments) are established by the government of the people, by the people, for the people. The constitution is specific and has no reference to god or religion other than to say it doesn't mix with government (separation of church and state). Obviously such constitutional rights can be changed (and added to and subtracted from) by later constitutional amendments. The right of women to vote is one, civil rights is another. Notice that these additional rights that expand the legal rights of all Americans are brought to you courtesy of the liberals. I have yet to figure out how expanded rights for all reduces or takes away our rights, but then the logic of your positions are dubious at best. Also notice that the one document that has reduced our rights is the so-called "Patriot" act brought to you by the neocon administration, and it had to be toned down until it was acceptable to enough conservatives to pass. Finally, the Declaration of Independence is not a law or a legal document, nor does it form a basis for laws. It is just a Declaration, signed by a few men (farsighted and courageous men). ps - Notice that the god that is referred to in the Declaration of Independence is the "natural god" of "natural laws" -- the opening paragraph is:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." Care to hazard a guess what god was being referred to there? Do TRY to get it right, eh? we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
aww ya gave it away. Does what ever consider that he may be way off base?
heh
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Whatever, is it more easy or less easy for the government to wiretap your phones without probably cause before GWB was president or after?
Did the government have the right to detain you indefinitely without due process before GWB was president or after? Did the government have the right to arrest you for reading certain books before GWB was president or after?
quote: No shit. It's called a huge TRADE DEFICIT and a huge NATIONAL DEBT. GWB inherited a large SURPLUS that he completely squandered. Also, his tax cut RAISES the tax burden upon the middle class, and LOWERS the tax burden for the weathiest Americans. Are you a millionaire, Whatever?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
It's "tortured", not "torchered".
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
Jar, I'm not to crazy about religion, and neither were our Christian founding fathers, was not this was the purpose of the Constitution, so one could worship God without the government interfering with the free exercise thereof, its known that its not separation of the Church from being involved in government, but the separation of the government from christian churches, when Jefferson said that God is the author of those rights, he was not speaking to any particular christian church, but to all Christians that were responsible for the Constitution, that he was proclaiming to the world that God is the author of our bill of rights(giving God the glory), to protect churches, from the threat of government turning on them, and their freedoms, for churches to beable to be involved in the government , and be protected from the government(Jeffersons stating enjoy a separation protection from government interference), etc...
P.S. It quite obvious that Jefferson was talking about the Christian religions(all the different christian denominations that fled religious persecution for their belief in Christ and not in the doctrines of the Government sponsored church), religion was never intended to include the occult sects (Hindu, buddist, muslims, and other satanic sects that don't believe in God), interestingly if one followed the constitution with Jeffersons inference to the world the rights are from God, one could possibly exclude these rights to cults not of the Christian flavors, cause like Jefferson said our rights are from God (not from budda, hindu, allah, satan, but our rights are from God, and he announced this proclamation to the entire pagan world, that God is the author of the bill of rights, so that their pagan beliefs would not be confused with their pagan gods getting the glory, the credit, etc...
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
whatever
You don't have a clue what you are talking about. And guess what
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 368 by johnfolton, posted 08-28-2004 9:13 PM | johnfolton has replied |
Replies to this message: | |||
Message 371 by johnfolton, posted 08-28-2004 10:17 PM | jar has replied |
Message 370 of 612 (137748)
08-28-2004 9:38 PM |
Reply to: Message 366 by nator 08-28-2004 8:59 PM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 366 by nator, posted 08-28-2004 8:59 PM | nator has replied |
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Message 392 by nator, posted 08-29-2004 9:27 AM | johnfolton has not replied | ||
Message 398 by crashfrog, posted 08-29-2004 1:38 PM | johnfolton has not replied |
Message 371 of 612 (137752)
08-28-2004 10:17 PM |
Reply to: Message 369 by jar 08-28-2004 9:38 PM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 369 by jar, posted 08-28-2004 9:38 PM | jar has replied |
Replies to this message: | |||
Message 372 by jar, posted 08-28-2004 10:36 PM | johnfolton has replied |
Message 372 of 612 (137753)
08-28-2004 10:36 PM |
Reply to: Message 371 by johnfolton 08-28-2004 10:17 PM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 371 by johnfolton, posted 08-28-2004 10:17 PM | johnfolton has replied |
Replies to this message: | |||
Message 374 by RAZD, posted 08-28-2004 10:56 PM | jar has not replied | ||
Message 376 by johnfolton, posted 08-28-2004 11:00 PM | jar has replied |
Message 373 of 612 (137756)
08-28-2004 10:56 PM |
Reply to: Message 365 by RAZD 08-28-2004 8:52 PM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 365 by RAZD, posted 08-28-2004 8:52 PM | RAZD has replied |
Replies to this message: | |||
Message 375 by RAZD, posted 08-28-2004 10:57 PM | Chiroptera has not replied |
Message 374 of 612 (137757)
08-28-2004 10:56 PM |
Reply to: Message 372 by jar 08-28-2004 10:36 PM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 372 by jar, posted 08-28-2004 10:36 PM | jar has not replied |
Message 375 of 612 (137758)
08-28-2004 10:57 PM |
Reply to: Message 373 by Chiroptera 08-28-2004 10:56 PM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 373 by Chiroptera, posted 08-28-2004 10:56 PM | Chiroptera has not replied |
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