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Author Topic:   New Book: Kerry ‘Unfit for Command’
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 166 of 612 (136562)
08-24-2004 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:17 PM


Re: Kerry accused of heresy,
Simple question.
Does George Bush inforce the laws as they exist?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:17 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by johnfolton, posted 08-25-2004 12:05 AM jar has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 167 of 612 (136563)
08-24-2004 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:17 PM


Re: Kerry accused of heresy,
It means he is not being truthful about his stands, whether its his personal life, like his first marriage, to the being unfaithful to his first wife wedding vows, while married, and then wanting an annulment from the Catholic Church, etc... Kerry is quite unbelievable, you can not take both sides of an issue, yet the media is letting Kerry get away with being a contradiction, etc...
How is it a contradiction to divorce and remarry?

"Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine, it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read, 'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous, and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.' The page has been universally condemned by church leaders."
-Rob Grant and Doug Naylor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:17 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:48 PM Dan Carroll has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 168 of 612 (136567)
08-24-2004 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:17 PM


No contradiction.
They aren't contradictions because personal policy is different from national policy -- he is not the nation, but as an american he supports the national policy as it currently is reflected in the laws. This makes him law abiding. His personal policy means that if it was his decision on a personal level he personally would not choose abortion. His acceptance of the national policy means that on a personal level he may disagree, but will accept that others may choose differently according to their own personal policies, and that they justifiably have the legal right to do so.
It seems you just don't get it.
You need to put down the fiction books and get some facts.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:17 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 2:00 PM RAZD has replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 169 of 612 (136571)
08-24-2004 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Dan Carroll
08-24-2004 1:21 PM


Dan, The word is that Kerry was cheating on his first wife, all through their marriage, he was separated and finally divorced in 1988, and then requested the Catholic Church to grant an annulment to say the marriage never happened, even though he had children, so he could remarry within the Catholic Church, I'm not sure if he got his annualment, but that would be a contradiction to say you were married and that the marriage never happened, etc...Though given Kerry's infidelity, via the good book, his first wife would of been free to remarry, cause of Kerry not fullfilling his marriage contract, to have and hold no other all the days of their life, till death do us part, etc...
GWB is married to the same woman, and publically honoring his marriage, his righteous standards actually are more in agreement with the Catholic Church, because his righteous standards in respect to marriage are higher than Kerry adulterous standards, Kerry was the one joining the Catholic Church, and is the one responsible for breaking their fundemental doctrines, but then again GWB religious beliefs is off topic, its all about Kerry being a contradiction even to the Vets, who served with Kerry, and we find he is being a contradiction in all the issues, including his personal life in saying his first marriage happened and by filing for an annulment that it never happened, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-24-2004 1:21 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by jar, posted 08-24-2004 1:55 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 172 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-24-2004 2:34 PM johnfolton has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 170 of 612 (136572)
08-24-2004 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:48 PM


Open question
there's an open question in Message 166

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:48 PM johnfolton has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 171 of 612 (136573)
08-24-2004 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by RAZD
08-24-2004 1:32 PM


Razd, He doesn't need to be a cheerleader to the abortionist movement if he is personally against abortion, which he did when he said we must continue to fight to preserve Roe/Wade, however, his stance on abortion, is just one small example that Kerry is not believable, etc...You have the same problem on all the issues, like saying he is against taxes when he consistently votes to increase taxation, etc...
There is what Kerry says, and their is what Kerry does, because one can not determine by what kerry says, what he believes one must base it on what Kerry's done, lying before Congress, Voting to increase Taxes, selling harden chip satellight technology to china, saying he is for something and voting otherwise, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by RAZD, posted 08-24-2004 1:32 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by RAZD, posted 08-24-2004 2:56 PM johnfolton has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 612 (136575)
08-24-2004 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:48 PM


Re:
I'm not sure if he got his annualment, but that would be a contradiction to say you were married and that the marriage never happened
Whatever, are you aware of what "contradiction" actually means?
I think what you mean is "lie". They're not interchangable words. And even then, he's not saying that the first marriage never happened, in the sense of saying he never lived with the woman and had children with her, he's going through church procedure to have the first marriage no longer recognized by the church. That's what an annulment is.
GWB is married to the same woman, and publically honoring his marriage, his righteous standards actually are more in agreement with the Catholic Church
Except for the whole "not married by the Catholic Church" thing.
Kerry was the one joining the Catholic Church, and is the one responsible for breaking their fundemental doctrines
If the Catholic Church granted the annulment, then how is he going against the Catholic Church? Seems to me like they okayed the whole deal.
This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 08-24-2004 01:48 PM

"Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine, it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read, 'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous, and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.' The page has been universally condemned by church leaders."
-Rob Grant and Doug Naylor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:48 PM johnfolton has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 173 of 612 (136583)
08-24-2004 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 2:00 PM


whatever writes:
like saying he is against taxes when he consistently votes to increase taxation, etc...
I am against taxes on a general basis, but I also recognize that they are necessary to pay for necessary government expenses. The real issue is not taxes but responsible spending -- recognizing that certain costs need to be paid and finding ways to do that which are fair and just and equitable.
Personally I think that if an amendment to the constitution is needed it should be one that says that for every bill that is passed where there is a cost involved that the bill must address how the cost is paid, either out of existing funds or through a specific tax or a specific bond issuing (like the "war bonds") complete with funds set aside to pay off those bonds when they become due.
This is how you can be against raising taxes in general but vote specific tax bills, because they are needed to pay the costs of the services. Compare that to the totally irresponsible debit spending of this administration, spending that has reached a new all-time high, while at the same time giving away billions to a few people most able to pay their taxes and having no plan to pay the costs plus interest at a later date, literally mortgaging the future to the highest bidder. This administration is not just debit spending in the great tradition of the republican party, but they are looting the treasury for their buddies at the same time. Some more radical people have even charged that the administration is intentionally trying to bankrupt the government as a prelude to take-over.
Out of curiosity, have you compared the government revenue lost due to this give-away program to the gained revenue from the tax increase to see which is actually costing this country more? Have you documented which of those taxes are not necessary? Have you documented all the republicans that also voted for the taxes? Or are you just parroting sound bites from neocon propaganda that have the appearance of meaning when all they are is a smoke screen from the real issue: our current administration is incompetent.
Responsibility is paying for your government, that means taxes, and that means that passing necessary taxes is responsible behavior.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 2:00 PM johnfolton has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 174 of 612 (136617)
08-24-2004 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:17 PM


how can anyone believe anything Kerry says
Because he's very clear about when he's speaking about his personal convictions, and about when he's speaking about his responsibilities as a US Senator.
Works for me, but then, I'm not crippled by an immature hatred of Democrats.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:17 PM johnfolton has not replied

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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 175 of 612 (136620)
08-24-2004 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
08-24-2004 1:17 PM


Re: Kerry accused of heresy,
quote:
Kerry comes across as believing his contradictions are true, but a contradiction can not both be true, etc...Kerry is like a ship without a rudder, and thats not the man to be electing to the highest office of the land, etc...
Whatever, where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
Also, whare is Ossama bin Laden?
How is the war in Iraq going?
What is the US national debt right now compared to 4 years ago?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 1:17 PM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by MisterOpus1, posted 08-24-2004 5:42 PM nator has not replied

MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 612 (136624)
08-24-2004 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by nator
08-24-2004 5:34 PM


Re: Kerry accused of heresy,
quote:
What is the US national debt right now compared to 4 years ago?
Or more to the point, what did Bush say about the effects of tax cuts to our deficit? Did he say they would increase or decrease the deficit?
(pssst, I'll give you a hint, he didn't say "increase").
quote:
Kerry comes across as believing his contradictions are true, but a contradiction can not both be true, etc...Kerry is like a ship without a rudder, and thats not the man to be electing to the highest office of the land, etc...
Oh come now, aren't you being a little harsh on the fella? I mean, you want to talk about contradictions, why don't cha have a little bite of your man in office right now:
1. Social Security Surplus
BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]
...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]
2. Patient's Right to Sue
GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]
...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]
...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]
3. Tobacco Buyout
BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]
4. North Korea
BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]
5. Abortion
BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]
...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]
6. OPEC
BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]
...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]
7. Iraq Funding
BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]
...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]
8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony
BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]
...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]
9. Science
BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientistsincluding Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidentsissued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]
10. Ahmed Chalabi
BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]
...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]
11. Department of Homeland Security
BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]
12. Weapons of Mass Destruction
BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]
...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]
13. Free Trade
BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]
14. Osama Bin Laden
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]
...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]
15. The Environment
BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]
...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]
16. WMD Commission
BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]
...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]
17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]
18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]
...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]
19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony
BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]
...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]
20. Gay Marriage
BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]
21. Nation Building
BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]
...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]
22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link
BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]
...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]
23. U.N. Resolution
BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]
...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]
24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict
BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]
25. Campaign Finance
BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]
...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]
I guess everyone has a few "contradictions" underneath their pillows, don't they?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-25-2004 5:26 PM MisterOpus1 has replied
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 177 of 612 (136627)
08-24-2004 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by crashfrog
08-24-2004 5:11 PM


quote:
Works for me, but then, I'm not crippled by an immature hatred of Democrats.
I think that should be "pathological hatred".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by crashfrog, posted 08-24-2004 5:11 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by johnfolton, posted 08-24-2004 11:26 PM Chiroptera has replied

Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 178 of 612 (136647)
08-24-2004 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by MisterOpus1
08-23-2004 4:24 PM


Re: JOHN O'NEILL Interviewed by CBN
While I agree that this notion is plausible,
It is more than a "plausible notion". It is the truth. And it is absolutely dishonest for democrats who know better to continue saying these people never served "with" Kerry because they weren't on the same 4-man boat. That's all I was trying to point out.
the problem with the other's accounts is the continual contradictory evidence against their charges.
I've heard arguments back and forth about this, and I generally believe the swift boat vets claims. However, as I said before, I wouldn't base any decision on 4 months that happened so long ago and in a different environment.
How pathetic can you get? And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Odell a lawyer? I certainly wouldn't want him on my team.
OOooo... Ad Hominem... I'm starting to learn a little logic hanging around here.
But in Kerry's speech during the Democratic convention, he broadly outlined nearly every one of his policies and stances, and actually scarcely mentioned his war record.
Now that's just bull. I watched his acceptance speech at the convention. From his corny introduction, "I'm John Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty," to the vets lining the stage to his statements that he would fight the war smarter and better because he served his country in vietnam, his wartime service was the main emphasis of the whole thing. You'd think he'd want to emphasize his senate career, but no, four months in vietnam....
As far as broadly outlining "nearly every one of his policies and stances" all I heard was string of unconnected generalizations that sounded as if he was painting a word picture from a wish list from the audience of what goodies they want to recieve when he gets in office. His lack of vision, clarity, presence, optimism, and humility were evident in his appearance at the convention and in the bits of his recent speeches I've seen.
And aside from the lack of leadership characteristics I sensed, the nature of his policies absolutely give me the shivers.
On the contrary, he has a great deal to show in his Senatorial record, some of it of course makes a few individuals in Bush's Administration a little uneasy
Then why is Kerry touting his four months in vietnam rather than his umpteen years in the senate?
I predict Kerry's Senatorial record will be September's hot button.
Let's hope so.
is that Bush's group and his 527's are NOT wanting to talk about Kerry's political record, and want to continue to ad hominem attack him to death.
What hipocracy...
He never claimed to be an anti-war candidate, so why attempt to paint him as such?
He's a fence sitter. He's trying to have it both ways. He is saying that the war on terror needs to be fought but we aren't going to do the fighting... we're going to leave it up to france and germany and the UN to do it... a VERY scary thought. The endless criticism of the war in Iraq drags on, but when asked if he would have voted for the war knowing what he knows now, he says he still would have voted in favor of it.
What Kerry has a problem with is Bush's rush to war without accepting (or understanding) the consequences of the war.
What is that supposed to mean? First of all, thats a hidden attack on Bush's intelligence. Secondly, no one can know the future. Thirdly, the war and the aftermath has gone VERY well and I'm very happy with the consequences and so are most of the soldiers over there who've risked their lives to accomplish what they've accomplished.
That includes hastily kicking out the UN Weapons Inspectors for no reason while they were doing their jobs,
I don't know whether or not the Iraqis were giving the inspectors the run around or not. There is some very reliable intelligence that the Iraqi's shipped a lot of weapons to Syria just before the baloon went up, but regardless... Saddam needed to be taken out immediately. He should have been taken out in the first gulf war.
doing a piss-poor job at gaining more global support,
He had a sizeable coalition (I've heard numbers from 30 to 50 something). Some nations are wimping out and surrendering to the terrorists demands. While its good to have some global support, I could really careless what the world thinks of him or us, it was the right thing to do, and when people see the consquences of a free democratic Iraq, the objective person will agree. And besides that, we have filled in one more gopher hole for the terriorists to pop their heads out of.
refusing to listen to strong evidence that we needed more troops for stability AFTER the successful invasion,
There IS stability and freedom throughout the vast majority of the nation now. The only instability is the result of radical muslims from Iran and other terrorist groups sending in militants in order to try and make this attempt at providing freedom and democracy in the middle east fail.
and refusing to put together a coherent and viable post-war rebuilding plan
I don't care what you say, transforming a tyrranical dictatorship into a democracy in a little more than a year is a phenomanal feat and no easy process, but we have made huge progress.
As a result, well, you see the results now,
And I like what I see... Why do all of Kerry's supporters think we've been living in "hell" for the last four years?
and the U.S. taxpayers are nearly paying for it all. Hardly what we need in a recovery, but the neo-cons got their way regardless.
First of all, the war was a worthy cause to pay for. Second of all, there is a LOT of unworthy excess baggage that needs to be eliminated from the governments expenditures. Defense spending and the war on terror is not something you can convince me we need to spend less on.
It appears you might be a little misinformed, or are choosing to ignore evidence to the contrary of your political beliefs.
If that were the case it would be a miracle, since %95 of the press is absolutely enthralled with Kerry. I thought Peter Jennings was going piss his pants he was so excited at the convention.
There IS a lot of information floating around out there, and I've heard enough to make my decision. I'm very happy with many of Bush's policies, and Kerry telling me, "Iii'm going to do it better," and "help is on the way," and "Iii'm going to take this matter to the UN" is not going to convince me that he is a better choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by MisterOpus1, posted 08-23-2004 4:24 PM MisterOpus1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by MisterOpus1, posted 08-25-2004 4:07 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 179 of 612 (136648)
08-24-2004 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by crashfrog
08-24-2004 1:46 AM


Well, yeah, but it sort of goes to character, doesn't it? Doesn't character matter?
Sure, but 4 months activites in a messed up war in a different social and political climate mean very little to me as far as character.
The most significant thing I gather from his four months is the fact that he video taped himself in action and even re-enacted certain situations to capture himself in a postion of glory possibly with future political ambitions in mind.
This little bit, unlike the swift boat vets claims is undebateable and offers a clear insight to his thought processes.
Well, I hardly think that's the case.
Well, that and telling us "help is on the way," and giving broad generalizations promising to magically fix all the nation's problems by treating the symptoms, and promising to shirk this terrorist business off on the UN.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by crashfrog, posted 08-24-2004 1:46 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by crashfrog, posted 08-24-2004 11:29 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 187 by RAZD, posted 08-25-2004 12:05 AM Hangdawg13 has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 180 of 612 (136652)
08-24-2004 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Chiroptera
08-24-2004 6:21 PM


If Kerry wasn't so contradictatorial, however, in his part of the Communist Victory in Vietnam, in the empowering of Chinas military, one can not Vote for the man. When George took over as president, China flexed her muscles over Taiwan, capturing one of our Naval intelligence planes, North Korea tested his metal over their nucleur missles, George passed the test, in his past handling of foreign matters. He has even started the exiting of Iraq, the economy is improving, in spite of the democrats shipping all our industries to China, and other 3rd world countries. We need to be protecting our soveignty, rather than surrendering it to he United NATIONS, the last thing we need is a world court, deciding an American election, though the democrats want the election monitored by the United Nations, and who pays these monitoring nations, of our election, but our tax dollars, etc...How quickly we forget how the military vote was compromised in the Bush Florida election, but Bush bashing is not the topic of this thread, its about Kerry being unfit for command, not about the voters being able to read the instructions of how to vote, etc...Personally, we should have a day set aside so all Americans could get out to Vote, as is when people get off work they rush in mass to vote, seems this is a better solution rather that invoking World Law to decide a political election(like help the people to get out and vote before the polls close), but the democrats apparently want to beable to invoke a power they will put above the supreme court of the land, which is simply treason, to the soveigty of our nation, and the people voting therein, etc...
The united nations answer to Israel is to open her borders so the palestinians can waltz in and blow up her citizens, and the democrats want these people to monitor our election. Truly the democrats need to be voted out of office, etc... I hear Kerry being a lawyer has over 2,000 lawyers in florida alone to monitor the election, however, now that a democrat is not president, the military vote should be sent in time for the election, do you remember how the military vote problems in florida, however, this thread isn't about George Bush, but about Kerry being unfit for command, there is another thread for discussing George W. Bush, etc.......
P.S. One can only wonder if the communist party has taken over the democratic party. How quick one forgets the communist funding the Clinton campaign, and how Clinton then sent Kerry to sell our hardened satellight technology to China. The democrats by wanting the United Nations to monitor an American election is pure treason, to the soverignty of America, and its Laws being soverign within our lands, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Chiroptera, posted 08-24-2004 6:21 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by jar, posted 08-24-2004 11:28 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 184 by Chiroptera, posted 08-24-2004 11:33 PM johnfolton has not replied
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