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Author Topic:   "I think therefore I am" - Decartes
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 30 (131949)
08-09-2004 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
08-08-2004 3:52 PM


quote:
What does this mean for other forms of life that do not think? Right now - staring at my dog - I can't be sure he doesn't think, because it looks like at least something is ticking around in there.
We have no way of confirming that dogs think in the same way we do. That is, we lack communication of abstract thoughts. Therefore, nothing concrete can be concluded one way or another.
However, owning a dog myself, I know what you mean. They can often respond to a simple gesture or your overall demeanor and react accordingly. My dog, for example, knows when I am going for the leash, even if I am walking away from the leash at the time. There is communication between humans and dogs, and it does appear that there is a "hamster running in the wheel", but we will probably never be able to communicate at the same level as we do with other humans. We will never be able to confirm the structure of our inner thoughts with any other species besides our own (barring extraterrestrial intelligent aliens, and maybe not even then).

This message is a reply to:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 30 (131951)
08-09-2004 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by tkster
08-08-2004 10:26 PM


quote:
What you think makes who you are as a person.
But . . . does being a person MAKE you think a certain way?

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 30 (131990)
08-09-2004 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by coffee_addict
08-09-2004 3:03 PM


quote:
Isn't it more reasonable to say that I am therefore I think?
No. A rock "is" but it doesn't think. Also, Rene postulated that "thinking" was not necessarily tied to the physical being. Instead, thought could be all there is while the physical is a "dream within a dream". However, you could rephrase Rene's argument (by not unfairly switching around the premises) to make his claim read "I am, therefore I am". Within the rules of logic Rene's argument is really poor, but I think it does portray some truth. To know that you are thinking, you have to BE. He inserts the conclusion into the premise, which is an obvious no-no. At best, we can conclude the being and thinking coexist, but one is not the cause of the other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by coffee_addict, posted 08-09-2004 3:03 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Silent H, posted 08-09-2004 8:05 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 30 (132379)
08-10-2004 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Silent H
08-09-2004 8:05 PM


quote:
He experienced thought, and that meant he (as the thinker, or perceiver of a thought) must exist. THAT he could not be fooled about.
Yeah, you are right. It is more of an axiom within metaphysics than an actual argument that depends on logic. Good point.

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 30 (133579)
08-13-2004 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by 1.61803
08-13-2004 12:27 PM


quote:
BUT...how do I know I am not a brain in a vat dreaming I dropped a anvil on my non existant foot?
It is a curious fact that hypnosis can block pain. I have seen blindfolded volunteers undergo hypnosis and upon waking are not able to feel needles being plunged more than an inch into their forearm. Now, is this the vat being neutralized, or the conscious report of pain within the brain that is being blocked? We can't really know, but it would appear that pain is reported through conscious channels that are susceptible to the practice of hypnosis.

This message is a reply to:
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