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Author Topic:   Is there a border dividing life from non-life?
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 132 (130616)
08-05-2004 9:23 AM


I think jar nearly has it. At least, its very close to my own formulation.
I started from the observation that due to entropic decay, water always flows downhill by the fastes available route. And yet, our hearts pump water up, against gravity. This can only be resolved against the laws of thermodynamics by recognising that the total energy that the organism uses to pump blood against gravity must be less than the total energy lost by the system overall.
An organism, them, is a kinda standing entropic wave. It is an interface, like waterfall, between high and low entropic states. A waterfall both does and does not exist in certain sense, but it certainly persists.
Our existance is more complex than the waterfall, but is essentially a whirlpool in a continual flow of energy in a multitude of forms. Because this system is, overall, entropically efficient and hastening the heat-death of the universe, the universe tends to produce highly organised structures if they can produce an overall increase in entropy as a result. Life is a long term investment by the universe in its own demise.
Edit: this reoslves the 'waste' issue. Waste is not a meaningfully ctaegory, but the output of entropically decayed matter is. It doesn't matter if this stuff is then used by something else; entropy always wins. As they say about thermodynamics: you can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game.
This message has been edited by contracycle, 08-05-2004 08:25 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Loudmouth, posted 08-05-2004 2:29 PM contracycle has replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 132 (130934)
08-06-2004 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Loudmouth
08-05-2004 2:29 PM


quote:
With organisms we see the separation of these reactions from the outside environment, and the production of new "thermodynamic islands" through reproduction.
I like it. and I roughly agree with your anlysis of the terrestrial water cycle. But we usually define life in part with reproduction; what I was driving at was the entropic role life plays, the format for that role requires bounding and reproduction, indeed.
This message has been edited by contracycle, 08-06-2004 05:16 AM

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 Message 45 by Loudmouth, posted 08-05-2004 2:29 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 132 (142280)
09-14-2004 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by S. Carton
09-13-2004 5:47 PM


Re: an important disagreement
quote:
I don't mean to be harsh, but please understand that's no way to put forth an argument. It's like talking to an ELIZA-like program.
I'va had that thought myself. Other candidate answers would be sever dyslexia, or something in the autism spectrum like Aspergers syndrome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by S. Carton, posted 09-13-2004 5:47 PM S. Carton has not replied

  
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