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Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is there a border dividing life from non-life? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jar
Define waste.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, kinda struggling there.
Living systems take in substances and output other substances. Plants absorb carbondioxide and release oxygen as a wast product. Animals take in oxygen and release carbon dioxide as a waste product. Are their similar cycles in non-living things? For example, an oxygen atom can combine with two hydrogen atoms to make water. But there it stops. They do not continue to add H or O or exchange old H for new H. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jar
Plants absorb carbondioxide and release oxygen as a wast product. Animals take in oxygen and release carbon dioxide as a waste product. Unfortunately this breaks the idea of it being a waste product and we are back where we started from. To say otherwise we must define elemental oxygen as a waste product.Thereforev any process that gave off oxygen as a consequence of reaction would fall in definition of life.Damn I really thought you had something there though.It goes to show the difficulty inherent in defining life though.I must take my wife and child to dinner as they are starving so I will continue this in about 3 hours. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. "
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sounds good. Let me know when you get back.
I think you misunderstand my position though. It is not the nature of the waste product but rather the functional aspects. Living things have a system where products are taken in, used and other products expelled as waste. Certainly Oxygen is a waste product and it is also a source. What differentiates the living from non-living is the continuation of the process. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jar
What differentiates the living from non-living is the continuation of the process. That is a good point.Do cells excrete waste to the enviroment and if that waste is always utilized by something simpler and simpler until the breakdown process is no longer biology but chemistry is it in fact waste? Or do we now have to look at the whole system of individual organisms together as life as opposed to individual life? This is going to take some time for me to digest {along with my dinner}.We will continue this soon, big guy. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. "
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
What differentiates the living from non-living is the continuation of the process. But like any chemical process, it only continues as long as the reactants are present. Take away the CO2 from a plant and the process stops. A fire burns as long as you feed it. On the other hand, even a well-fed creature eventually dies. Sounds like you have it backwards to me - what typifies life is that none of the processes are ultimately continuous.
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tubi417 Inactive Member |
hmmm I honestly don't like this topic at all. The molecules of life are much different than the molecules of non living material. Could you imagine teaching to a bunch of high schoolers that theres no difference between them and a rock? You could destroy someone's values right there.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The molecules of life are much different than the molecules of non living material. How? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6052 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
The molecules of life are much different than the molecules of non living material. Really? Perhaps you could explain in more detail how you arrived at this conclusion. Perhaps explain: how is a carbon atom is different in "life" and "non-life" molecules? or how is water different within our bodies than without? What specifically is the "difference" you mention? If you describe it, you'll be describing the "border dividing life from non-life".
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tubi417 Inactive Member |
DNA and such...let talk about the second part of my argument
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well DNA is not that different, relatively simple and just a chemical reaction. Nothing more. Infact, it's really questionable whether DNA is alive.
What is the second part of your argument? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6052 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
DNA and such... What is the difference between an oxygen atom in a DNA molecule and an oxygen atom in a particle of sand? What about DNA synthesized by bacteria and purified, vs. DNA of the same sequence but created via a series of chemical reactions in a lab - what is the difference there? Or are you taking back your statement that there is an inherent difference between "life" and "non-life" molecules?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 506 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
tubi417 writes:
This is technically true. However, a rock's molecular structure is as different to a sheet of metal as it is to a cell. By your logic, a sheet of metal must me somehow special. The molecules of life are much different than the molecules of non living material. Could you imagine teaching to a bunch of high schoolers that theres no difference between them and a rock? The Laminator For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
sheet metal is very special! they make short buses out of sheet metal. you can't get more special than that.
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tubi417 Inactive Member |
so you think that theres no difference between you and a rock or you and sheet metal?
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