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Author Topic:   Fossil Sorting in the Great Flood Part 2
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 411 (119148)
06-27-2004 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by AdminNosy
06-27-2004 1:32 AM


new edict issued
OK Ned, I seem to have an uncanny knack at finding your sore spots. Something tells me there is a weakness here somewhere, but we'll let you off the hook for now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AdminNosy, posted 06-27-2004 1:32 AM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by AdminNosy, posted 06-27-2004 3:49 AM simple has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 62 of 411 (119172)
06-27-2004 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by simple
06-27-2004 1:39 AM


red herrings
It is a common debating tactic to attempt to switch topics when you are in trouble with the current one.
You seem to have an ongoing problem with sticking to the topic at hand. I'll continue to remind you and others if it starts to happen.
If you sense a weakness, you may propose a new thread to discuss off topic items that arise here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 1:39 AM simple has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 63 of 411 (119212)
06-27-2004 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by simple
06-27-2004 1:37 AM


Re: ribbing granny
How did man and woman (says evo) come to be appearing together-at the same time? I assume you'd have to say the both evolved at the same time.
Of course not! They're two different, unrelated species, Arkathon!
Seriously, A, have you not even learned this much in hanging around here? Do you really argue against a concept that you have at best a kindergarten concept of? Or are you just yanking our chains?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 1:37 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 9:53 PM Coragyps has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 64 of 411 (119213)
06-27-2004 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by simple
06-26-2004 2:47 PM


Re: slip slidin away
Who said God would slam the water on to the planet? Who said there would have been much if any of a temperature difference? (He could cool or heat it as needed, with cosmic forces He controled.What if forces were at work that cahanged the earth's gravitational field? (even briefly, you know the magnetic field can be reversed and affected) So it is not a case of "dropping the ball, but more one of executing a beautiful syncronised feather landing. In a nutshell, you assume God was not in the picture actively, and omit potential forces that are not now in play, and rest utterly on theories such as tectonics, that omit the flood as well.
As has been said many times before:
1. If you want to invoke miracles, admit that you aren't talking about science, stop discussing this in a science forum and go discuss it in a faith based forum.
2. Science does not consider hypotheses for which there is no evidence, which have no explanatory power, and which are more complex than hypotheses which adequately explain the existing evidence.
Measurements of how it is, not was or will be.
Come up with somne evidence that indicates it was or will be different. Until then, give it up.
Yes so you say. But are not the 'calculations based on what we don't really fully know about the earth's guts, except in theory?
No. They are based on well-established properties of materials, physics, and measurements.
Does not the 'calculations' ignore any potential flood time effects that could drastically change the formula?
Yes, becase we always ignore hypotheses for which there is no evidence, which have no explanatory power, and which are more complex than hypotheses which adequately explain the existing evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 2:47 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 10:13 PM JonF has replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 65 of 411 (119214)
06-27-2004 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by simple
06-27-2004 12:09 AM


Grass
Does grass live only at high elevations? Did grass run faster than dinosaurs? Where do rabbits live?
Speaking of grass, is it a possibility at all, that grass pre flood did not use pollen as a reproduction method?
Science does not consider hypotheses for which there is no evidence, which have no explanatory power, and which are more complex than hypotheses which adequately explain the existing evidence.
The post here was to use creation science sources to show there is doubt that there are no exceptions to the fossil record
That's what you've tried to change it to. The original "post" was fro you to explain the order of the fossil record and why grass pollen is found only in the very top portion. Answer the questiions: Does grass live only at high elevations? Did grass run faster than dinosaurs? Where do rabbits live?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 12:09 AM simple has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 66 of 411 (119215)
06-27-2004 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by simple
06-27-2004 1:37 AM


Re: ribbing granny
Then you will have to explain to us why we find marine mammals with marine fish and shellfish, etc. in the same environment today but not in the past...
Do you find many fossilized?
Yes. Answer the question. Why would we find marine mammals with marine fish and shellfish, etc. in the same environment today but not in the past?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 1:37 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 10:22 PM JonF has replied

edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 67 of 411 (119281)
06-27-2004 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by simple
06-27-2004 1:37 AM


Re: ribbing granny
quote:
A: Woman is here then, unmade if you wish. How did man and woman (says evo) come to be appearing together-at the same time? I assume you'd have to say the both evolved at the same time.
Okay, then why did you ask?
quote:
e: Then you will have to explain to us why we find marine mammals with marine fish and shellfish, etc. in the same environment today but not in the past...
A: Do you find many fossilized?
Your failure to answer my question is noted.
To answer yours: I don't know specifics of this case, but I know that other biomes overlap in the fossil record.
quote:
e: The question is can you back them up?
A: Instinct is not theory, we know about this. It works 4 million ways from sunday. You can provide no reason it was not at play in the deluge.
This was simply a rhetorical question. Can you back up any of your statements?
quote:
e: 'Vibes?' Please explain the biblical reference to 'vibes'.
A: Who said the word came from the bible? Why are you concerned with a book who's account of the flood echoed in Jesus own mouth you utterly reject?
Another question avoided. You were talking about God's actions sending out 'vibes'. I thought perhaps you had some evidence for this. Or is this just another 'funny little thought of yours?'
quote:
e: All you need is love
A: Amen, God is love.
But science requires evidence...
quote:
e: What is your supporting evidence?
A: Evidence for instincts in animal world? Come on now, get serious, you aren't really doubting that, unless you are retarded.
No. What is your evidence (or reasoning) that instincts did not evolve, since it is so clear, that is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 1:37 AM simple has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 68 of 411 (119284)
06-27-2004 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by simple
06-27-2004 12:56 AM


funny thoughts is right
I had a funny little thought. If the vibes were going out through the world that the creator had to destoy dry land life (and a good portion of the sea life that got caught in it's phases, mudslides, etc) maybe instinct kicked in, and creatures had an urge to be together!!!! This would tend to give us a pettern of these creatures buried together, no? Instinct is a wonderful and powerful thing! Creatures come equipped with amazing complicated programs that kick in as needed.
An urge to be together? Together with what? The same species as themselves? You have this "funny little thought" that has no evidence and isn't explained in any detail.
Could you supply some more detail on what this fantasy is about and how it answers the fossil sorting question? There isn't a clue that it does so far.
Plants have an instinct to be together???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 12:56 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by RAZD, posted 06-27-2004 6:32 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 78 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 10:43 PM NosyNed has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 69 of 411 (119287)
06-27-2004 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by NosyNed
06-27-2004 6:15 PM


Re: funny thoughts is right
and world covering layers is not "together"
heh.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by NosyNed, posted 06-27-2004 6:15 PM NosyNed has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 411 (119315)
06-27-2004 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Coragyps
06-27-2004 10:11 AM


Re: ribbing granny
Sorry, if you insist on trying to swich the topicc to woman, Ned & I will stop playing mr nice guy wit yu.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Coragyps, posted 06-27-2004 10:11 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-27-2004 10:08 PM simple has replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 71 of 411 (119319)
06-27-2004 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by simple
06-27-2004 9:53 PM


summary please?
Hey Arkathon,
I just read through this thread, and was unable to put my finger on any evidence you've given. I read the links you posted, and unfortunately they provide no citations to any sort of scientific evidence, and so they are merely their own assertions.
Perhaps you would provide a bulleted list of the points you've made, and your evidence for each. It would greatly help your argument. (NosyNed made a similar request last night...)
(Also, if you think that the evolution of the male/female sexual system is impossible, I do hope you will start a separate thread so we can discuss that point.)
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 9:53 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 10:29 PM pink sasquatch has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 411 (119320)
06-27-2004 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by JonF
06-27-2004 10:19 AM


Re: slip slidin away
quote:
If you want to invoke miracles, admit that you aren't talking about science,
As I say now, and may say again, if you try to omit miracles from everything, you will limit your understanding of science! Miracles are very scientific. It's just that our science is still quite backward to grasp how God's science does these things. When it comes to creation and the flood it is utterly impossible to even discuss it seriously if you leave out miracles! How could God create everything in a week, if not for a plain bunch of (to us now at least) miracles? How could He end human life on the whole planet, in such a way as to make it possible for life to bloom again if not for a miracle? How could He even tell Noah how to build the ark witout a miracle? How could He even Personally close the door to the ark without what we consider a miracle??!! No, He is part of true science, actually a fantasticlly big part. There is no escaping this. Someone sold you a phoney bill of goods to get you to think otherwise! Creation/evolution debate really is nothing in the world but God's miracles, like creation, against such miracles as granny bacteria basically mothering all life, and the cosmic cup o soup emitting all things out of itself!!! The only difference in God's good world is that the faithful evolutionists scream darn murder if you point this out, deny it, cry foul, and insist that only the other side's miracles don't count! So- take your rock is old because a fossil is in it baloney to a faith based forum, really.
quote:
Come up with somne evidence that indicates it was or will be different. Until then, give it up.
Prove that things will always be the same and always will, or give up and surrender unconditionally now please.
quote:
Yes, becase we always ignore hypotheses for which there is no evidence, which have no explanatory power, and which are more complex than hypotheses which adequately explain the existing evidence.
Godless evo miracles are not adequate for all, and trying to claim a monopoly on science for your religion is no longer acceptable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by JonF, posted 06-27-2004 10:19 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by NosyNed, posted 06-28-2004 2:31 AM simple has replied
 Message 92 by NosyNed, posted 06-28-2004 2:31 AM simple has not replied
 Message 100 by JonF, posted 06-28-2004 7:10 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 411 (119323)
06-27-2004 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by JonF
06-27-2004 10:25 AM


Re: ribbing granny
quote:
Do you find many fossilized?
"Yes."
Do you find many fossilized marine mammals with shellfish and together with fish that are positively from very very recently? I somehow think the answer will be very few if any, and there may be some doubt about their age? It would seem, at least from the fraction of a percent of the world we so far got to, that there were flood forces at work that tended to have the creatures buried together. Instinct to be together, habitats quick buried in catastrophe, and a thousand other things, none of which flood rejectors would much care for, no doubt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by JonF, posted 06-27-2004 10:25 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by jar, posted 06-27-2004 10:35 PM simple has replied
 Message 101 by JonF, posted 06-28-2004 7:13 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 411 (119324)
06-27-2004 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by pink sasquatch
06-27-2004 10:08 PM


Re: summary please?
quote:
I just read through this thread, and was unable to put my finger on any evidence you've given.
And the only specific almost here, which I had to raise myself, Ned more or less conceeded (mass marine fossil layers in Rockies) And I see nothing from the other side much, really at all, except for aloofness, disdain, papal edicts, sweeping praise for all the very smart evos, and the common tie that binds, a not so veiled hatred for creation, and faith, and flood, and the spirit. But that's OK I know exactlt where most are coming from on this.
There was the Bill guy Ned mentioned, but his specialty seemed to be that study I looked up, where they use fossils to claim age for rocks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-27-2004 10:08 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-27-2004 10:43 PM simple has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 75 of 411 (119328)
06-27-2004 10:34 PM


Guys, just a thought. If you want arkie to stop dodging your questions, you should elect a representative/spokesman to speak for all of you. That way, there is no excuse to not answer every question. You guys are flooding arkie with more facts and questions than he can handle. This is what gives him the advantage. He can pick and choose which question he wants to answer and which ones to ignore.
You guys decide among yourselves the one or 2 persons that you want to talk to arkie on this. This way, you can force him to answer every single question without much room to dodge or to change the subject.

The Laminator

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