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Author Topic:   D&D and satanisim
The Pure One
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 164 (99812)
04-13-2004 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by One_Charred_Wing
04-13-2004 8:47 PM


the horse man dont have the cooky you hafe to kill it than go throu a forist

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 Message 44 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 04-13-2004 8:47 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
The Pure One
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 164 (99816)
04-13-2004 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by One_Charred_Wing
04-13-2004 8:47 PM


the forist has monkeys i like monkeys but whin you git the glan of milk of DOOM you must put in the holey grall that you got at the begining of the qust this is all eze for my lvl 39 elef wiz role the die for my next story

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Wertbag
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 164 (99824)
04-14-2004 12:03 AM


Heres some rantings from Christians on another forum about this subject, it gets pretty strange...
Dungeons and Dragons is a tragic and tangled subject. It is essentially a feeding program for occultism and witchcraft. For Christians, the first scriptural problem is the fact that Dungeons and Dragons violates the commandment of I Ths. 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil." Much of the trappings, art, figurines, and writing within D&D certainly appears evil-to say the least of it.
On top of that, the second issue is that the materials themselves, in many cases, contain authentic magical rituals. I can tell you this from my own experience. I was a witch high priest (Alexandrian tradition) during the period 1973-84. During some of that period (1976-80) I was also involved in hardcore Satanism. We studied and practiced and trained more than 175 people in the Craft. Our "covendom" was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin; just a short drive away from the world headquarters of TSR, the company which makes Dungeons and Dragons in Lake Geneva, WI. In the late 1970's, a couple of the game writers actually came to my wife and I as prominent "sorcerers" in the community. They wanted to make certain the rituals were authentic. For the most part, they are.
These two guys sat in our living room and took copious notes from us on how to make sure the rituals were truly right "from the book," (this meaning that they actually came from magic grimoires or workbooks). They seemed satisfied with what they got and left us thankfully.
Back in 1986, a fellow appeared on The 700 Club who was a former employee and game writer for TSR. He testified right on the show that he got into a wrangle with the management there because he saw that the rituals were too authentic and could be dangerous. He protested to his boss and was basically told that this was the intentto make the games as real as possible. He felt conscience-stricken (even though he was not a Christian at the time), and felt he had to resign from the company.
Now, the question becomesif a person "innocently" works an authentic ritual that conjures up a demon, or curses someone; thinking that they are only playing a game-might not the ritual still have efficacy? I think we know the answer to that question. If you play at shooting your friend in the head with what you think is an unloaded pistol and don't know a shell is in the chamber, is your friend any less dead because you were playing?
Fear generation-via spells and mental imaging about fear-filled, emotional scenes, and threats to survival of FRP characters.
Isolation-psychological removal from traditional support structures (family, church, etc.) into an imaginary world. Physical isolation due to extremely time-consuming play activities outside the family atmosphere.
Physical torture and killings-images in the mind can be almost as real as the actual experiences. Focus of the games is upon killings and torture for power, acquisition of wealth, and survival of characters.
Erosion of family values-the Dungeon Master (DM) demands an all-encompassing and total loyalty, control and allegiance.
Situational Ethics-any act can be justified in the mind of the player, therefore there are no absolutes of right or wrong; no morality other than "point" morality needed to ensure survival and advancement. There are no win-win situations and good forces seldom triumph over evil forces.
Religion-values and belief systems (see below) are restructured from traditional Judeo-Christian ethics (which most people in Western culture adhere to) to belief in multiple gods and deities. Players align themselves with specific deities they select; patron deities are strongly urged. These are not fantasy deities, but are drawn from genuine ancient religions and beliefs! Only occult gods are included. In addition, defilement is urged in many ways, such as excrement or urinating to "defile a font."
Loss of Self-control-authority over self is surrendered to the DM. Depending on the personality and ego-strength of the player, this loss can be near absolute.
Degradation-pain and torture are heavily involved in sadistic, sexual situations that graphically appeal to visceral impulses. Much of the material (as mentioned above) is well into pornographic areas and stresses the defilement of innocence.
Additionally, God says that magic is deep and abominable sin.
Now the question becomes, can a person play the game without subscribing to the worldview? It is possible, but considering the high level of emotional and intellectual commitment that the game requires, is that really realistic? D&D is not like chess or Monopoly. It is a game that engages the whole person at deep levels, and it can last months if well-played. How can a person, Christian or not, immerse themselves in a reality view so deeply and not have it impact the rest of their lives? This is difficult to imagine, especially considering the highly demonic and magical content of much of the game. As the saying goes, "if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 49 of 164 (99833)
04-14-2004 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Wertbag
04-14-2004 12:03 AM


Now, the question becomesif a person "innocently" works an authentic ritual that conjures up a demon, or curses someone; thinking that they are only playing a game-might not the ritual still have efficacy?
Players don't do the rituals. Their characters do.
If Bob, with a a 7 Clr, casts "Magic Circle Against Evil", he doesn't actually get out of his chair and draw a circle on the floor in powdered silver. He just says that his character does.
Erosion of family values-the Dungeon Master (DM) demands an all-encompassing and total loyalty, control and allegiance.
What the hell is he talking about?
Boy, I'm glad we got a bunch of bs from people who have no experience with the game. That was really useful.

This message is a reply to:
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TechnoCore
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 164 (100353)
04-16-2004 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Yaro
04-12-2004 2:30 PM


Yeah MUD's are great, I used to play AlexMUD a couple of years ago.
It was really addictive, but most of all very social game
i've choosen _not_ to try Everquest at all. I realise i might get caught by it. It really is too time consuming. I have several friends who has (forsaken?) literally years of their life to that game.
Somehow i think you can categorize all games into two categories:
1) Games where the reward is the actual gameplay. I.e the game is fun in it self.
2) Games where the reward always lies ahead of you, and not int the actuall gameplay.
Everquest definatly falls into category 2. The gameplay is soo boring. You do the same thing over and over again, and do it slowly, just so you can get to the next level. But beeing at that level is no fun in itself. It is the hunt for the next level that is the reward.
A cargame, or starcraft falls into category 1. They're made to be fun during the actual gameplay, sure you have the reward of victory, but that is not the main reason why you play it.

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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 51 of 164 (100355)
04-16-2004 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by TechnoCore
04-16-2004 7:01 AM


Everquest definatly falls into category 2. The gameplay is soo boring. You do the same thing over and over again, and do it slowly, just so you can get to the next level. But beeing at that level is no fun in itself. It is the hunt for the next level that is the reward.
Did you ever play "Progress Quest"? (Maybe "play" isn't the right word...) It takes the leveling fun of Everquest and removes the tedium of actual gameplay. And it's free! Go to Progress Quest.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6074 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 52 of 164 (100356)
04-16-2004 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Wertbag
04-14-2004 12:03 AM


Some time back, I read the Jack Chick comic on DnD as a lark. I was so amused by it, I started an email rapport with someone who works on the site. He gave me exactly the same story as you posted. In addition, he actually claimed to have several of the books as reference materials, and they all had detailed magic rituals in them. When asked which books, he declined to answer. When I asked if rpgs would be acceptable if they had a disclaimer, he declined to answer. When I told him he was a bold-faced liar, he stopped writing to me.
This post might not have been what he said, verbatim, but it brought back a lot of memories. About the only thing you missed was specifically mentioning the kid who committed suicide when their character died.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 53 of 164 (100360)
04-16-2004 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Cynic1
04-16-2004 8:03 AM


This post might not have been what he said, verbatim, but it brought back a lot of memories. About the only thing you missed was specifically mentioning the kid who committed suicide when their character died.
Which is incidently a true story. The bit that amuses me however is that MADD (mothers against dungeons and dragons) collected statistics about suicide rates among those who played D&D that showed that roleplayers were actually less likely to commit suicide than their peer group!

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Replies to this message:
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TechnoCore
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 164 (100365)
04-16-2004 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by crashfrog
04-16-2004 7:31 AM


ROFL !
That must be the best thing i've seen in a long while
Im a 90-pound teenager! Soon too be a double half halfling !

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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 55 of 164 (100399)
04-16-2004 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dr Jack
04-16-2004 9:07 AM


Not only that, the kid that comited suiced had emotional problems long before he played D&D. He was a coke addict, and a bit of a Juvenile delinquent.
The group he played with testified that the kid only participated in maybe one or two games. The mother blamed the game however. I guess it's easier to blame a board game than to face the fact that you likely failed your child in his upbringing.

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MexicanHotChocolate
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 164 (115277)
06-15-2004 3:45 AM


The people who think D&D actually promotes Santanism are the same folks who think Harry Potter contains real witchcraft. They've all been reading too much of that propaganda by sickos like Jack Chick.

Our loyalties are to the species and the planet. We speak for Earth. Our obligation to survive is owed not just to ourselves but also to that Cosmos, ancient and vast, from which we spring.
--Carl Sagan, 1934-1996

  
custard
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 164 (115618)
06-16-2004 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by One_Charred_Wing
04-10-2004 2:33 PM


Re: Thoughts on the topic in question
EDITED IN:Lord of the Rings has wizards like Gandalf and is fantasy in every aspect. Yet it's NOT some allegory of Christianity and everyone considers it so Christian appropriate because good triumphs over evil.
WRROOONG! It IS an allegory of Christianity. Read the Silmarillion. It's basically Genesis. Gandalf is an angel working for God Almighty.
Any of this sound familiar to you?: (from The Silmarillion | encyclopedia article by TheFreeDictionary )
quote:
The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called Eru Ilvatar (The One who is Father of All). The tale began with Ilvatar's creation of spirits of lesser power than him, yet of independent nature, named the Ainur.
The Ainur (from Valarin Ayanz) are the spirits who existed with Ilvatar, and helped him to create the world Arda through the Music of the Ainur. After the creation of Arda, many of the Ainur worked to guide and order its growth. Of these there were fifteen more powerful than the rest. Fourteen became the Valar. The fifteenth, Melkor, became the first Dark Lord.
Ilvatar made divine music with them... the Music of the Ainur is the great song at the beginning of Time, out of which the World Arda was created. In it the whole history of Arda was told, but the Ainur which came into it forgot most of it.
Melkor Morgoth Bauglir (Morgoth means 'Black Enemy', Bauglir is 'The Constrainer'...was - to begin with - the most powerful of the Valar, and he contended with Eru himself in the Music of the Ainur.
Ilvatar muttered "E", that is, "be!". This order created the universe, and therefore the universe became known as "E".
Melkor... attempted to take it for his own... and thus Melkor was forced to flee to some unknown part of E.
So, if anything, playing Dungeons and Dragons, which is a direct rip off of LOTR, is actually celebrating God, not Satan.
This message has been edited by custard, 06-16-2004 03:18 AM

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Replies to this message:
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custard
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 164 (115619)
06-16-2004 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Cynic1
04-16-2004 8:03 AM


Some time back, I read the Jack Chick comic on DnD as a lark.
Yes, the ultimate classic: Dark Dungeons.
I read this and became a Chick fan for life.
This message has been edited by custard, 06-16-2004 03:22 AM

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 59 of 164 (115621)
06-16-2004 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by custard
06-16-2004 4:18 AM


WRROOONG! It IS an allegory of Christianity.
Well, it has a bitheist theology, I guess, but I don't really see much in the way of allegory.
Who's the Christ figure? Frodo? Aragorn?
Maybe the SM makes it more clear, but I couldn't make it all the way through.
It's much closer to being a rip-off of Athurian legend than a retelling of the New Testament. Your milage may vary, I guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by custard, posted 06-16-2004 4:18 AM custard has replied

Replies to this message:
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custard
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 164 (115623)
06-16-2004 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by crashfrog
06-16-2004 4:36 AM


Who's the Christ figure? Frodo? Aragorn?
Hmm, it's got to be Frodo, right? He's the one who sacrifices everything to save the rest of the world. That he doesn't actually get physically killed isn't so important as he is spiritually killed and has to go into the West to be 'resurrected.'
I'm not really seeing the Arthurian 'rip off' unless you refer to the whole Return of the King with the Cool Sword theme - which is an old Anglo-Saxon theme. But that is only a minor part of the entire story which begins in the Silmarillion.
But trying to make it through the Silmarillion is like trying to get through the OT without all the 'begats.' The only way I managed to do it was when I got the book on tape. And it's better than Ambion for putting you to sleep.
This message has been edited by custard, 06-16-2004 03:48 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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