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Author | Topic: Debunking the Creationist Earth-Moon separation nonsense. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RingoKid Inactive Member |
...sorry bout that
so what's this about the moon and the earth ???
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usncahill Inactive Member |
just wondering why no creationists have said anything on this matter... or did they all reply to you eta? and is ringo a creationist or devil's advocate? just trying to catch up.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 478 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
usncahill writes: just wondering why no creationists have said anything on this matter... or did they all reply to you eta? and is ringo a creationist or devil's advocate? just trying to catch up. Because creationists know they can't argue with math. Heck, I'm a physics major and I didn't feel like reading through that first post closely. I just speed read through it. The Laminator
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
Ringo is a nihilistic creavolutionist who advocates for God...
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
i didn't particularly feel like reading the math part either, but the information doesn't sound right to me.
the current scientific model has the moon exiting the roche limit at about that time. the current model i heard involves a mars-sized planet smashing into the earth during the early solar system's bombardment phase, shattering the planet, and spewing magma out hard and fast enough to achieve escape velocity. this fits all the current evidence of the moon, including the fact that due to it's eccentric shape and orbittal lock with the earth it must have been formed out of molten rock initially.
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Eta_Carinae Member (Idle past 4375 days) Posts: 547 From: US Joined: |
There is no way to make any comment upon the formation of the Moon based upon the dynamical changes in it's orbit.
I was just showing that the often made Creationist claim that the Earth-Moon system cannot be very old because of the orbital changes is CRAP. You are correct, the currently accepted Moon orign theory involves the impact of a large object with the Earth. That is a separate issue.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
There is no way to make any comment upon the formation of the Moon based upon the dynamical changes in it's orbit. no, but it is one of the factors which dictates the current theory. i'm not making this up, really.
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Eta_Carinae Member (Idle past 4375 days) Posts: 547 From: US Joined: |
Yes you are making it up.
You have misunderstood what you may have read on this topic. I was addressing the change in the Earth-Moon separation over the last few billion years - a topic which creationists use as "evidence" against the Earth-Moon system being old. I showed this is not a problem and that the creationist material on this is basically lying for an agenda. This has nothing to do with the formation of the Moon at all really.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
it has everything to do with the formation of the moon.
the creationist argument is that they moon must have been formed in the last 6000 year because of it's recession from the earth. good calculation, of course, shows this to be in error, and puts that formation date, where the moon lies outside the roche limit, to be about 4 billion years ago. is this not what you calculated? i was just pointing out that your data doesn't precisely coincide with the "official" data, but is certainly sufficient in disproving any creationist claim of a young earth-moon system. the rate of recession/distance, however, along with angular momentum, the rotation/revolution lock, shape, mass, and composition of the moon all play a roll in determining the moon formation theory. if for instance, the moon did not have the rotational lock with the earth due to it's shape, it had to have formed independently of the system, out of hard bodies. however, the facts indicate liquid formation. if the moon were closer, and receding faster, it might indicate capture if the formation happened while life was present. if the moon were formed with an iron core, it would place its age a little older, with the formation of the solar system. instead, it appears to be formed from PART of larger mass (the earth) that had already been sorted by density. it may have been a little off topic, though. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 05-23-2004 08:47 PM
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
it has everything to do with the formation of the moon. I don't understand your point. Eta was simply saying that it doesn't matter how the moon formed to debunk the moon recession issue. Are you disagreeing or not?
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Eta_Carinae Member (Idle past 4375 days) Posts: 547 From: US Joined: |
it has everything to do with the formation of the moon. the creationist argument is that they moon must have been formed in the last 6000 year because of it's recession from the earth. good calculation, of course, shows this to be in error, and puts that formation date, where the moon lies outside the roche limit, to be about 4 billion years ago. is this not what you calculated? Well indirectly you could say that. I am just saying a calculation shows that the Moon was not close enough in the last few thousand years to cause problems for life on the Earth. That is the issue Creationists usually bring up - the idea the tides on the Earth would have been too high. The point I am making with you is that no model such as this can make any definitive statements about the formation of the Moon - i.e. exactly when - there are too many variables that are imprecisely known to make exact statements with respect to the time of the Moon's formation
i was just pointing out that your data doesn't precisely coincide with the "official" data, but is certainly sufficient in disproving any creationist claim of a young earth-moon system. Actually I know of know official data on this issue. The only data I have seen was using a less sophisticated calculation than I did - though I believe there are some more sophisticated models with respect to the energy dissipation in the Earth's oceans. I am actually thinking of researching this over the summer and writing a paper on this.
the rate of recession/distance, however, along with angular momentum, the rotation/revolution lock, shape, mass, and composition of the moon all play a roll in determining the moon formation theory. if for instance, the moon did not have the rotational lock with the earth due to it's shape, it had to have formed independently of the system, out of hard bodies. however, the facts indicate liquid formation. if the moon were closer, and receding faster, it might indicate capture if the formation happened while life was present. if the moon were formed with an iron core, it would place its age a little older, with the formation of the solar system. instead, it appears to be formed from PART of larger mass (the earth) that had already been sorted by density. Yes it is a complex problem. You have some details in the above paragraph that are wrong though. One thing I didn't put in my original post, but I did calculate it was the time for the Moon to become tidally locked with the Earth - it wasn't always so.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
I don't understand your point. Eta was simply saying that it doesn't matter how the moon formed to debunk the moon recession issue. Are you disagreeing or not? no, i guess not. nevermind. i'll uhh, go sit in the corner now, eta.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
At the same time eta suggest you have something in your comments. I really don't know what is right.
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
I didn't know the moon came from the earth, funny but the first thing it reminded me off was creating somebody from the rib of someone else...
...ya feel me ???
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
lol nice.
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