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Author Topic:   Dinosaurs living with humans?
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 61 of 112 (108607)
05-16-2004 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Denesha
05-05-2004 4:02 PM


quote:
Oh please not you. Job's hallucinations again!
Make sure that I appreciate the delicacity of your interpretation.
I give up,
Sorry, but it's a well-accepted translation (tail=hebrew slang for "penis").
I mean, read the rest of the passage with that in mind and it makes sense; it talks about the behemoth's sinews in his loins which are powerful, and how strong the muscles of his belly are. It even mentions the behemoths "stones" in connection with the sinews of his belly.

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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 62 of 112 (108622)
05-16-2004 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by nator
05-16-2004 10:27 AM


Besides, "Behemoth" is the singular form of the word "behemah", which means "beasts of burden", which could be considered to be a bull, which are well known for their virility.

Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Idiot" Hovind's website
Idiot

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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 63 of 112 (108623)
05-16-2004 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Gary
05-13-2004 9:14 PM


Also, considering that the head of a T. rex was 13 feet above the ground, there weren't many instances in which it would actually need to swim. It'd simply walk on the bottom of the body of water.

Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Idiot" Hovind's website
Idiot

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DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 64 of 112 (108650)
05-16-2004 2:17 PM


There is no real evidence that shows T-rex being semi-aquatic... although it is possible it is unlikely. It could be very dangerous for it. It might have gone though water if needed.(many non-aquatic animals cross through rivers etc..) As I said before dinosaurs most likely evolved from crocodilians so it could be a left over. Theropods had nostrils in that area from before Coelophysis down.
Spinosaurus (avatar), Baryonyx ,Suchomimus, and others on the other are all thought to have been semi-aquatic.
Spinosaurus

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

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redwolf
Member (Idle past 5791 days)
Posts: 185
From: alexandria va usa
Joined: 04-13-2004


Message 65 of 112 (109674)
05-21-2004 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by DC85
05-16-2004 2:17 PM


Good picture.

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Ediacaran
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 112 (110802)
05-27-2004 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by redwolf
05-07-2004 9:07 AM


Red writes: You've got dinosaur and human tracks together around Glen Rose Texas.
A lot of stuff turns up for that one, do your own google search on 'paluxy' and 'dinosaur' and check it out. The evolutionist claims that all such evidence is fake ring pretty hollow at this point.
Edi responds:
"Stuff" is a good G-rated substitute for the scatological term. The Paluxy "mantracks" are touted by self-proclaimed "Dr." Carl Baugh, the creationist who runs the Creation Evidences Museum in Glen Rose, Texas. It turns out that claims of fossilized mantracks along the Paluxy River are as bogus as Baugh's alleged science degrees.
The dinosaur tracks are real enough (at least the ones in situ), but there are no fossil "mantracks" - only the deluded imaginations of creationists, who see "mantracks" in sloppy dinotracks (which were partially infilled with mud as a bipedal dino pulled its feet out of the muck - such alleged "mantracks" have discernible three-toed claw impressions and stains). Creationists also imagine "mantracks" in various erosional features.
Baugh's silly claims have even made some creationists turn against him. Answers in Genesis denounced Baugh, and the Institute for Creation Research was duped for awhile, but finally printed a half-hearted semi-retraction regarding the "mantracks" (around ICR Impact 151 or 152 or so, if I recall correctly), then quietly let the matter drop to avoid further embarassment. Of course, many creationists still buy into the "mantrack" nonsense, and Baugh even has a TV show on the fundamentalist Trinity Broadcasting Network.
The mantrack claims didn't start with Baugh, however. In fact, early in the century, a few Glen Rose locals used to carve fake dino tracks and "mantracks" to sell to tourists, to compete with the few landowners that had actual dino prints to sell. That is how they came to the attention of the scientific community - Roland Bird saw some fake tracks - both dino and exaggerated "mantracks" - in a curio shop in the desert southwest, and asked around for their source (since he suspected the dino tracks were probably modeled after the real thing)and eventually found they came from Glen Rose. The best of the tracks were excavated and sent to museums in New York, NY and Austin, TX.
Glen Kuban has done an excellent job of exposing the false claims of Baugh's. Point your browser to:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html
As for Baugh's alleged degrees, see:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/degrees.html
Since Red is the one in denial, I'll finish with a warning about Baugh's claims written by the creationists at Answers in Genesis, since he'll only accept creationist sources:
http://members.aol.com/Paluxy2/whatbau.htm
Baugh also claims that fire-breathing dragons are living at the bottom of the sea, awaiting Armageddon. He's hilarious. If you ever have a chance to visit his double-wide "Creation Evidences Museum", it's one of the funniest carny shows you'll ever see.
Oh, and the "university" pictured on Baugh's website on the dissertation page? It's actually The Church At Burleson, formerly Burleson Baptist Temple. It seems many of Baugh's friends start unaccredited diploma mills, as documented in Kuban's article (Kuban mentions another church "university" as one of Baugh's Alma Maters in the article).
If you're ever in Glen Rose, visit the Dinosaur Valley State Park, and see the real dino tracks for yourself. No valid fossil "mantracks" to be found, despite the wishful thinking of Young-Earth creationists.
This message has been edited by Ediacaran, 05-26-2004 11:49 PM
This message has been edited by Ediacaran, 05-27-2004 12:04 AM

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 67 of 112 (111646)
05-30-2004 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Finniss
04-03-2004 5:41 PM


Where there is smoke there is usually a fire. How do people all over the world have stories, legends, drawings, sculptures of things they never saw? And don't try to say that these things are merely lizards. Many drawings or sculptures show these "lizards" towering over people and large animals and sometimes eating them.
And yes I do believe to some extent the thousands and thousands of people who have had UFO encounters, but I do not think they are bodies from other planets, rather they are probably some kind of demonic activity (research the nephilim). Many people who have had "UFO close encounters of the third kind" have also been dabbling in the occult or channeling. I don't recall ever hearing of a Christian who was abducted... but that is another topic... we are talking about dinosaurs.
The evidence from glenrose TX and Dinosaur National Monument Utah has never been refuted. Those who attempt to explain these away as being dubious dinosaur tracks or dubious human prints or bones of dubious origin obviously have not seen the evidence themselves.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 68 of 112 (111650)
05-30-2004 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cloud_strife
04-03-2004 3:48 PM


Redwolf touched on the Glenrose site, but I'll try to go into a little more detail.
I recently heard a paleontolgist give a presentation on the site and so I will try to recall as best I can what he presented.
143 clearly defined dinosaur prints have been found uncovered by a nearby river. The dinosaur had a consistent gait of 6 feet. Each left is immediately followed by a right print. Cross sections of the prints reveal disturbed sediments beneath ruling out the possibility that they were carved or faked. No one will deny that these are dinosaur prints. A trail of over 14 or so human prints intersects the dinosaur path. These are unmistakably human size 11-11.5 prints. Many have five clearly defined toes. These also follow a clear left right pattern with a consistent gait. These have been cross-sectioned and also found to be bonafide. To make sure that someone had not somehow faked them, the trail was followed back under the river bed. The overlying material was removed to find six more human prints. Two prints are clearly inside the dinosaur prints. These have also been cross sectioned. There is absolutely no doubt as to the origin of these prints. One evolutionist who saw it became so upset he came back with a hammer and destroyed one of the prints (pictures, casts, etc. still exist). The best evolutionists can come up with (those who have seen the evidence themseleves and still believe in evolution) is that they were made by human-like aliens. (what would aliens be barefoot for?)
At Dinosaur National Monument 10 human skeletons (men women and children) have been recovered from the same rock as many dinosaurs 50 feet below the surface. The fossilized bones were discovered in 1970 when miners uncovered them. The overlying rock was so hard that the mine was abandoned in 1930 because it was tearing up their equipment, so there is no chance this was a burial ground. There is no evidence of a fissure or crack that they might have fallen into. This has also never been successfully refuted by evoltionists.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

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Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 05-30-2004 10:41 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 70 by jar, posted 05-30-2004 10:50 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 72 by Asgara, posted 05-30-2004 10:58 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 81 by JonF, posted 05-30-2004 11:24 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 112 (111654)
05-30-2004 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Hangdawg13
05-30-2004 10:26 PM


Well, Glen Rose does not have human and dinosuar tracks. If you look at them closely you will find three, not five toes, some with claws.
You can find a good discussion of them Here
I'll try to get back to you one the people at Dinosaur National Monument. But don't hold your breath.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 112 (111657)
05-30-2004 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Hangdawg13
05-30-2004 10:26 PM


Interesting about Dinosaur National Park and those human remains. I did a very quick search and found that is not even a true statement. The remains you seem to be talking about were NOT even found in Dinosaur National Park.
For more on this HOAX see Here
So both the footprints and the 10 bodies turn out to be hoax or sloppy work.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 71 of 112 (111659)
05-30-2004 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
05-30-2004 10:41 PM


Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Have you actually seen the evidence or did you simply read this second hand site which quotes evolutionists who would probably make up anything to explain away this evidence?
Much of this site contains flat out lies, such as "human prints had claws" "3 toes instead of 5" etc. These are simply lies.
I have seen very clear good pictures of this well documented site, and listened to a two hour presentation from a man who has worked on the site, Ph.D. Don R. Patton. He has worked on sites all over the world and only became convinced of the validity of the creationist model after examining much evidence.
There is no doubt as to the fact that these are human prints.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 72 of 112 (111660)
05-30-2004 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Hangdawg13
05-30-2004 10:26 PM


I would like to know the name of this paleontologist and when and where you heard him speak.
One evolutionist who saw it became so upset he came back with a hammer and destroyed one of the prints (pictures, casts, etc. still exist). The best evolutionists can come up with (those who have seen the evidence themseleves and still believe in evolution) is that they were made by human-like aliens. (what would aliens be barefoot for?)
This story has been going around about Glen Kuban for many years now.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/rebutt.html
Here is one of Glen's pages discussing the tracks at Paluxy River:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/tsite.html
Here is ICR's Impact #151 written in 1986 discussing this ruse, in case you will only believe creationist liturature
Acts and Facts Magazine | The Institute for Creation Research

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 73 of 112 (111661)
05-30-2004 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Hangdawg13
05-30-2004 10:56 PM


Yeah, I've seen all the photos and the film and I've even wandered around up there and seen some of the examples in person. And all I can tell you is, No way, No how. There were never humans and dinosaurs running around together.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 74 of 112 (111662)
05-30-2004 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by jar
05-30-2004 10:50 PM


It is not a HOAX. I've read the article on Talk.Origins and it is trying to deny the evidence by simply denying the facts. It says these bones were from an indian burial ground buried 15 feet deep in soft sediments, which is simply a lie.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 75 of 112 (111663)
05-30-2004 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Asgara
05-30-2004 10:58 PM


Ph.D. Don R. Patton. He spoke a couple of weeks ago in Longview, TX.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

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