Author
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Topic: Dinosaurs living with humans?
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redwolf
Member (Idle past 5791 days) Posts: 185 From: alexandria va usa Joined: 04-13-2004
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Message 46 of 112 (106329)
05-07-2004 2:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by gene90 05-07-2004 12:03 PM
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>Those would have been some big snakes. The two on the bottom ARE snakes. The one on the top is a stegosaur. Other than that, a horned toad does not have a "great spiked tail" with which it can tip canoes over...
This message is a reply to: | | Message 45 by gene90, posted 05-07-2004 12:03 PM | | gene90 has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 47 by gene90, posted 05-07-2004 2:31 PM | | redwolf has replied |
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gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: 12-25-2000
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Message 47 of 112 (106336)
05-07-2004 2:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by redwolf 05-07-2004 2:23 PM
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quote: Other than that, a horned toad does not have a "great spiked tail" with which it can tip canoes over...
What about the Great Bear that made the furrows down the side of Devil's Tower with his claws? (We geology types call it 'columnar jointing') Again, what you need is a fossil like the ones I previously mentioned, that would remove all doubt. The Paluxy tracks are a step in at least the right philosophical direction, the use of fossil evidence. Science hinges on such demonstrable, material facts. We don't have a lot of use for legends, by themselves. This message has been edited by gene90, 05-07-2004 01:33 PM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 46 by redwolf, posted 05-07-2004 2:23 PM | | redwolf has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 48 by redwolf, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 PM | | gene90 has replied |
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redwolf
Member (Idle past 5791 days) Posts: 185 From: alexandria va usa Joined: 04-13-2004
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Message 48 of 112 (106354)
05-07-2004 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 47 by gene90 05-07-2004 2:31 PM
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My guess as to why you don't have much in the way of human and dinosaur fossils together, and there seems to be more than one reason, would be as follows. Humans have always lived near water for the most part; elaine Morgan in fact makes a fairly compelling case that we were originally aquatic. That says that most of the places which humans inhabited prior to the flood are now beneath the waves. There was simply never as much water on the Earth before the flood as there is now. If there had been, then given the hotter climate of the hipsothermal, we'd have probably all drowned as you might note in the latest piece of leftwing outlaw-the-internal-combustion-engine garbage coming out of Hollywood. Finding Cities in all the Wrong Places Given standard theories wrt the history of our solar system and our own planet, nobody should be finding cities and villages on Mars, 2100 feet beneath the waves off Cuba, or buried under two miles of Antarctic ice. Those interested in the city off Cuba should do google searches on the three words 'cuba', 'city', and 'Zelitsky' from time to time. That says that we are, for the most part, now living in areas which would have been viewed as plateaus and sparsely if at all populated prior to the flood. That also says that you should not expect to find a whole lot of anything in the way of antediluvian (human) fossils lying around. Moreover, it seems likely to me that, while there were leftover dinosaurs kicking around four or five thousand years ago, humans probably did not live in the main age of dinosaurs on this planet. In particular, I cannot picture humans living around raptors without modern weaponry. Midrashim in particular describes a number of animals such as the reem in precisely the way you'd expect leftover dinosaurs to be described i.e. as curiosities at a time just prior to and shortly after the flood. I would GUESS that the main age of dinosaurs was somewhere backwards from 10K to a few tens of thousands of years back, but not 65 million. In the case of Mishipishu, the water panther, we have an animal which has no adaptation for an aquatic life at all, nonetheless, after the change in gravity which killed off all the remaining dinosaurs and larger pleistocene megafauna, the stegosaur, or those of him left, tried to adapt by moving into the water. It obviously did not work out too well for him or he'd still be there in the Mississippi river. The thread on the topic of dinosaurs and gravity is at: http:// EvC Forum: Dinosaurs and the reduced felt effect of gravity --> EvC Forum: Dinosaurs and the reduced felt effect of gravity
This message is a reply to: | | Message 47 by gene90, posted 05-07-2004 2:31 PM | | gene90 has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 49 by Cthulhu, posted 05-07-2004 5:14 PM | | redwolf has replied | | Message 51 by gene90, posted 05-08-2004 12:27 PM | | redwolf has not replied |
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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days) Posts: 273 From: Roe Dyelin Joined: 09-09-2003
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Message 49 of 112 (106380)
05-07-2004 5:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by redwolf 05-07-2004 4:05 PM
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My guess as to why you don't have much in the way of human and dinosaur fossils together, and there seems to be more than one reason, would be as follows. Humans have always lived near water for the most part; elaine Morgan in fact makes a fairly compelling case that we were originally aquatic.
And virtually all carnivorous dinosaurs were excellent swimmers and many lived near water. So we would be finding human and dinosaur bones together.
Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Idiot" Hovind's website
Idiot
This message is a reply to: | | Message 48 by redwolf, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 PM | | redwolf has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 50 by redwolf, posted 05-07-2004 6:14 PM | | Cthulhu has replied |
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redwolf
Member (Idle past 5791 days) Posts: 185 From: alexandria va usa Joined: 04-13-2004
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Message 50 of 112 (106408)
05-07-2004 6:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 49 by Cthulhu 05-07-2004 5:14 PM
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>And virtually all carnivorous dinosaurs were excellent swimmers... How do you know that?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 49 by Cthulhu, posted 05-07-2004 5:14 PM | | Cthulhu has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 54 by Cthulhu, posted 05-08-2004 9:33 PM | | redwolf has not replied |
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gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: 12-25-2000
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Message 51 of 112 (106598)
05-08-2004 12:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by redwolf 05-07-2004 4:05 PM
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Sorry, I'm not into conspiracy theories. Especially those I don't believe in, and until now, haven't seen any connection to the Flood. Because I can't prove that those conspiracies are invalid I'm going to pass them over.
quote: There was simply never as much water on the Earth before the flood as there is now.
Are you refering to the amount of "water" in the total system (glaciers, etc) or sea level? According to conventional science sea level is pretty low right now. Late Cretaceous: Early Devonian: From to scotese.com This message has been edited by gene90, 05-08-2004 11:28 AM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 48 by redwolf, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 PM | | redwolf has not replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 52 by Denesha, posted 05-08-2004 1:13 PM | | gene90 has replied |
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Denesha
Inactive Member
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Message 52 of 112 (106604)
05-08-2004 1:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 51 by gene90 05-08-2004 12:27 PM
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Global sea water level
Hi, Never heard about the Haq & al. curve? From : Haq, B. U., J. Hardenbol, and P. R. Vail. 1988. Mesozoic and cenozoic chronostratigraphy and cycles of sea-level changes, in Sea-Level changes: An integrated approach. Spec. Publ. Soc. Econ. Paleontol. Mineral, 42:71-108. If needed, I have a xls file, if you fancy drafting it with your personal scaling. Denesha
This message is a reply to: | | Message 51 by gene90, posted 05-08-2004 12:27 PM | | gene90 has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 53 by gene90, posted 05-08-2004 4:48 PM | | Denesha has not replied |
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gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: 12-25-2000
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Message 53 of 112 (106640)
05-08-2004 4:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Denesha 05-08-2004 1:13 PM
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Re: Global sea water level
Not jarring any memories, but I recognize Vail's name in the reference. Of course, he's been all over sequence stratigraphy. It sounds like something I could have/might have used in a Milankovitch cycles paper a semester ago. This message has been edited by gene90, 05-08-2004 03:55 PM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 52 by Denesha, posted 05-08-2004 1:13 PM | | Denesha has not replied |
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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days) Posts: 273 From: Roe Dyelin Joined: 09-09-2003
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Message 54 of 112 (106696)
05-08-2004 9:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 50 by redwolf 05-07-2004 6:14 PM
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Well, gee. They have long, powerful legs that end with long toes. They have long, powerful tails. They have streamlined bodies. We have tracks that show a theropod chasing a group of large ornithopods out of water. Besides, carnivorous vertebrates as a whole tend to be rather good swimmers.
Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Idiot" Hovind's website
Idiot
This message is a reply to: | | Message 50 by redwolf, posted 05-07-2004 6:14 PM | | redwolf has not replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 55 by dead, posted 05-13-2004 1:29 PM | | Cthulhu has replied | | Message 56 by zephyr, posted 05-13-2004 3:38 PM | | Cthulhu has not replied |
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dead
Inactive Member
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Message 55 of 112 (107959)
05-13-2004 1:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Cthulhu 05-08-2004 9:33 PM
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I don't see how strong legs and a tail would help keep a Rex's head above water for breathing purposes. Have any further explanation? How would you swim, in a horizontal position, and support your head above water with tiny arms? A tail wouldn't help.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 54 by Cthulhu, posted 05-08-2004 9:33 PM | | Cthulhu has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 57 by Cthulhu, posted 05-13-2004 7:26 PM | | dead has not replied | | Message 58 by Gary, posted 05-13-2004 9:14 PM | | dead has not replied |
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zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days) Posts: 821 From: FOB Taji, Iraq Joined: 04-22-2003
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Message 56 of 112 (107981)
05-13-2004 3:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Cthulhu 05-08-2004 9:33 PM
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One might also point out that virtually all predatory lizards, crocodiles, and alligators are superb swimmers. The first vertebrate to re-occupy Krakatoa after the explosion was the asian water monitor. ( http://www.homoexcelsior.com/...ve/speculation/msg22371.page ) Crocs and alligators speak for themselves. A T. rex might have had trouble maneuvering its front section with those tiny arms, but don't underestimate the power of its tail. It was a pretty significant portion of the body weight, and almost all muscle. Besides, even if they never went in the water, they must have visited regularly. What does it matter? One exception to the rule....
This message is a reply to: | | Message 54 by Cthulhu, posted 05-08-2004 9:33 PM | | Cthulhu has not replied |
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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days) Posts: 273 From: Roe Dyelin Joined: 09-09-2003
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Message 57 of 112 (108037)
05-13-2004 7:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by dead 05-13-2004 1:29 PM
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I don't see how strong legs and a tail would help keep a Rex's head above water for breathing purposes. There are plenty of other carnivorous dinosaurs besides Tyrannosaurus rex. So a T. rex may not have been that great at swimming. Big whoop. There's still Spinosaurus, Allosaurus, Deinonychus, Utahraptor, Deltadromeus, Dryptosaurus, Dilophosaurus, Dick Clark, etc.
support your head above water with tiny arms? This is something known as the "primate bias". Simply put, humans have a hard time envisioning how something can be effective without long arms. Besides, arms aren't necessary for swimming.
Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Idiot" Hovind's website
Idiot
This message is a reply to: | | Message 55 by dead, posted 05-13-2004 1:29 PM | | dead has not replied |
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Gary
Inactive Member
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Message 58 of 112 (108048)
05-13-2004 9:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by dead 05-13-2004 1:29 PM
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Here is a photo of an alligator's head and an artist's conception of a Tyrannosaurus. The alligator is a modern reptile that is able to keep its nostrils out of the water while swimming because they are raised slightly. It therefore does not have to lift its head out of the water much to swim, and it becomes hidden in the water so it can sneak up on prey. The T. rex has similar nostrils, and may have been able to do the same thing. It may be simple coincidence though.
This message has been edited by Gary, 05-13-2004 08:16 PM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 55 by dead, posted 05-13-2004 1:29 PM | | dead has not replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 59 by DC85, posted 05-16-2004 12:30 AM | | Gary has not replied | | Message 63 by Cthulhu, posted 05-16-2004 12:07 PM | | Gary has not replied |
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DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days) Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: 05-06-2003
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Message 59 of 112 (108520)
05-16-2004 12:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 58 by Gary 05-13-2004 9:14 PM
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Could it not just be a left over? after all dinosaurs most likely evolved from croc like creatures. Like humans have and another set of eyelids(that little thing in the corner of your eye) which is a useless left over
This message is a reply to: | | Message 58 by Gary, posted 05-13-2004 9:14 PM | | Gary has not replied |
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DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days) Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: 05-06-2003
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Message 60 of 112 (108523)
05-16-2004 12:37 AM
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the Idea of dinosaurs living with Humans isn't absurd! I just finished cleaning my Dinosaur pen and collected the eggs! I also went to KFC and got a 12 piece Bucket!(tasted like what it is CHICKEN!) However if you mean Humans living with stegosaurs , T- rexes etc... that IS Absurd This message has been edited by DC85, 05-15-2004 11:38 PM My site The Atheist Bible My New Debate Fourms!
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