Answers to athiest's dum disputes

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In Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus participates in a Passover meal, the Last Supper.

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In John, however, Jesus is crucified and dead before Passover begins.

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That's a very clear contradiction, unless you can show me how it isn't.

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I'm sure I've seen a pretty good discussion of this somewhere, but I don't know where. Perhaps you'd like to submit a new topic concerning this question? The perhaps we can gather the information under a good topic title.The main purpose of this message wasn't just the above. This topic is probably a good example of the poorly titled, vaguely defined topic that we are trying to do away with with the new new topic review process.I'll leave it open for a bit longer, to collect the messages in progress and any final comments, but this ones closing down soon.Adminnemooseus

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No.
You, as many others, forget that the scriptures are not about science nor history. A critique from the literary point of view may report that these disciplines find much commentary as regards what the scriptures say, but no.This is a Hebrew Mystery, exposed, presented as the only Mystery, from the many we know of in antiquity. It is the only mystery willing passed on to us, into the future. The other secret societies held to their secrets. Those secrets were lost to us. Check it out, the Eylusian Mysteries, for one. The ancients KNEW something that we still have not discovered.I suspect it pertains to those disciplines in which we admit ignorance: Psychology, Human Behavior, Economics, Sociology, even Education.Do some research on the matter of Mystery Societies in the Ancient World. You will discover that the Jews have given a valuable present to us, but we have been unable to "unwrap it."Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel( a conscious seventh archetypal awareness in men's mind, Harmony), when he shall begin to sound 9the awakening of Total Consciousness0, the mystery of God, (phylogenetic memory), should be finished, as he hath informed his servants the prophets (as recorded in scripture).This secret book, this Holy book contains, somewhere beneath the surface of the disarming pathos of stories, morality plays, histories, and ritual,.. a "hidden manna."Rev. 2:17 He that hath an ear, (listen to this clear meaning), let him hear what the Spirit, (the Sevenfold Psyche0, saith unto the churches, (the evolving body of christianity); To him that overcometh, ( who sublimates beyond the archaic interpretations of scriptural understandings), will I give to eat of the hidden manna, (the hidden organizational pattern in Genesis), and will give him a white stone, (a marker), and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.That faith has kept it alive and with us for 3500 years suggests the mystery of some knowledge of human behavior, some concept of how to propel this written secret forward,... until that "expected one" opens the seven seals, and we all... even the unbeliever... understand.Is 32:4 Even the hotheads among them will be full of sense and understanding, and those who stammer in uncertainty will speak out plainly.Inplicit in this post is the point I wish to make, that the book of Numbers is NOT wrong, exactly... the numbers it will turn out are TOO small. But I will show why in another post.Rev. 5:3 And no man in heaven (in thought), nor on earth (physically), neither in the sea (of written records), was able to open the book (the Hebrew scriptures), neither to look thereon.Rev. 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open (and to read the ancient Hebrew mystery), neither to look thereon.(Ref: Scripture from The Freudian Bible Translation and Interpretation/ not on net,... refer to publisher.)

Insects lay eggs which can survive harsh conditions. Many of them (crickets) lay eggs in the ground which would certainly be able to survive a flood. So obviously it would be possible to destroy all living things, but repopulate the land with the eggs which would then hatch out. Spiders lay eggs in cocoons which would still be able to survive a flood. If it couldn’t then we would expect to find no spiders in places where there are local floods. Therefore Noah probably didn’t take spiders on the ark, at least not intentionally, but we know how insects tend to hitch rides on things. It wouldn’t matter if the eggs hatched out. They wouldn’t have to start from those two. The Bible talks about the Earth being divided after the flood (continental drift). So obviously the writers knew that the Earth was once one continent and later we had the continental drift. I think this speaks again of the accuracy of the Bible [edited to fix quote format] AdminBrian[This message has been edited by AdminBrian, 04-15-2004]

Insects lay eggs which can survive harsh conditions. Many of them (crickets) lay eggs in the ground which would certainly be able to survive a flood. So obviously it would be possible to destroy all living things, but repopulate the land with the eggs which would then hatch out. Spiders lay eggs in cocoons which would still be able to survive a flood. If it couldn’t then we would expect to find no spiders in places where there are local floods. Therefore Noah probably didn’t take spiders on the ark, at least not intentionally, but we know how insects tend to hitch rides on things. It wouldn’t matter if the eggs hatched out. They wouldn’t have to start from those two. The Bible talks about the Earth being divided after the flood (continental drift). So obviously the writers knew that the Earth was once one continent and later we had the continental drift. I think this speaks again of the accuracy of the Bible [This message has been edited by keith63, 04-15-2004]

Hiya!Been traveling sporadically and busier than sh!+ at home. I was lurking on occasion but reluctant to get involved for etiquette's sake. There's nothing worse than a guy who just disappears from a hot discussion.Not that anyone does that around here....Anyway, I'll be around. I know I'm no poster-of-the-month but I try to make things fun

Not real obviously..... this galloping drift silliness has been trashed pretty thoroughly over in the Geology and the Great Flood forum. It was "drift," not "scoot."

Microevolution is when things change over time. For instance, take a small dog from a litter and breed it to another small dog and continue over time and you get a smaller breed of dog than the original.Or take the often used peppered moths. There are two types of peppered moths. When conditions change then one has a survival advantage and the dark color becomes more dominant.How about Darwin’s finches. When conditions change (drought) then those with a thicker beak become more dominant. What the studies don’t tell you is that when conditions return to normal, so does the beak size!! This part of the story always conveniently gets left out.Antibiotic resistant bacteria. When antibiotics are introduced. Those who have resistance survive and the population changes to become resistant.All these are examples of MICROEVOLUTION. No where do we see bacteria turning into a protist.Macroevolution involves an increase in complexity. I would like to see evidence of a mutation which has caused an increase in complexity. The bacterial resistance is a mutation which caused a loss of complexity. Here’s the challenge. Show me an example of an organism which had a mutation which caused an increase in their complexity as required by TOE.This sounds like it should be the beginning of another thread.

Don't recall saying the word "scoot"

Hi, You appear to be mixing up with me who thinks that the Bible has accurate history and science in it. In many many of my posts I have stated that the Bible is not a history book.Personally, I am not into these esoteric, Von Danikenesque, Holy Blood Holy Grail hidden teachings of the Bible. The Bible is a collection of ancient ideological texts, propganda and folk tales, to think there is a hidden meaning is not a path I have time to venture down, but thanks for pointing it out. Revelation is not Jewish book.Brian

Are you saying basically that might makes right? And even when a deity makes a mistake, it's not a mistake because he says so?Man, I would go to hell as an act of protest if that were really the way it was. Call it civil disobedience in the spiritual realm....

It is reasonable to believe that spider and cricket eggs survive local floods of days and weeks, whether floating, buried, stuck in floating debris, or attached to trees that are just tall enough to keep them from drowning. Alternately, one could also conclude that those areas are repopulated from adjacent dry spots by other populations of the same insects. However, it is ridiculous to claim by extension that the same eggs could survive a year of worldwide immersion in salt water. They would not have been safely buried in the ground by any means. The entire surface of the earth was supposedly covered by violently moving water, which can be safely assumed to have stripped off (at a bare minimum) all the topsoil around. This is an absolute requirement of the YEC claim that the flood deposited all of the geologic column, because the geologic column underlies all of today's topsoil.Even if the eggs were preserved for an entire year without drowning, what evidence suggests they would be viable? And what would the insects eat when they hatched into a world of mud and bare rock? You're talking about huge quantities of biomass increase from nothing.On another note, "...was the earth divided" is generic and vague enough that you can interpret it however you want (a recurring theme with supposed literalism, oddly enough). Political divisions, national borders, regions acquiring names, catastrophic plate tectonics that would destroy all life on the surface of the earth, it's your call. Lacking a preconceived notion of the "proper" conclusion, I am not at all inclined to pick the last, given that there is zero evidence to support it. The record of the rocks shows both catastrophes and long periods of stability, and quite often shows MANY of each in the same location. Your construct just can't support that.

Re: "Scoot"The most prominent creationist ideas about the continental movements propose vastly unrealistic rates (says the non-admin mode).That said, closing this one down. See my message at the top of this page.Adminnemooseus

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