The War in Europe

As you were, nothing to see here...

And Wagner is apparently going on, even recruiting again.Prigozhin is talking but no words on where he is - or Putin. There’s a video of Shoigu - the Defence Minister that Prigozhin wanted out - but it may well have been recorded some time earlier.Situation still unclear, we don’t know what Prigozhin and Putin are playing at,

According to Colonel Douglas Macgregor, a controversial yet well learned conservative,(Ph.D in international relations) is controversial and outspoken on the Russian Ukrainian conflict. He claims that Ukraine cannot win the war no matter what they do despite massive US and NATO support unless NATO gets directly involved.(which would lead to escalation) Wasn't Wagner initially on Russias side as hired mercenaries? If so, I suspect that this whole 180 degree turn by Wagner is in some way staged and is a form of propaganda to convince the world that Ukraine will win and that it is Russia who is nearly finished.Some of you have mentioned that the conservative playbook is to spread fear rather than patriotic (and unified) optimism regarding the course of such a war. If so, Macgregor is doing his job for the conservatives, but I might point out that he is no country bumpkin with an opinion. In his opinion (he has written several books) Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine but simply consolidate the annexed provinces into Russia...UNTIL his army got bloodied and beaten, at which point Putin used superior Russian artillery and missiles to destroy Ukraine. (Ukraine's population has dropped by at least a third since the war started) Trump liked him and as I peruse his bio, I can see that he has been labeled
a racist, anti Muslim, and anti immigration type. Quotes such as this one support that:

Wiki:

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In a 2013 radio appearance, Macgregor spoke of an "entitled" "underclass" of people that were concentrated in "large urban areas", and the threat they posed.

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"And when the food stamps stop, when the free services end, when the heating bills aren’t paid and the heating doesn’t come through in many of these large cities—Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, Washington, Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles—this underclass that resides in these places, I think could become very violent."(...) etc etc.

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The Wiki article exposes his public gaffes and racist/nationalist comments. So why do I listen to him?What if he is right? What if the war in Ukraine never gets won by Ukraine?Maybe dwise1 can help me with this one. He is ex-military and not a far right conservative.

He seems to be wrong on some important points.Putin was originally out to annex the entirety of Ukraine. Kyiv was the major target of the initial assault but the convoy stalled out on the way there.The Wagner rebellion looks more like an internal dispute. It’s hard to see what the Kremlin gets out of it, other than a smack in the eye for Putin.And the quote you offered looked pretty far right to me.

Yep, you're right, Macgregor is just another conservative scaremonger. Could you please stop rummaging around in your echo chamber?Anyone claiming to have even just a fair idea of how the Ukraine war will end is wrong. No one knows how this will end or what will happen before it ends. I hope most people are hoping for a free and independent Ukraine rather than for outcomes, no matter what they are, that will give them a political advantage.--Percy

He is a racist. Case closed. So not surprised you listen to him.

From his Wikipedia page:

Wikipedia:

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He regularly contributes to Fox News and Russian state media. His opinions on Russia and Ukraine have caused controversy among other conservatives, including being called a member of the "Putin wing of the GOP" and a fellow traveller.
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Macgregor has appeared as a regular guest on Fox News, with at least 60 Fox weekday appearances from August 2017 to early 2022, including 48 on Tucker Carlson’s show.
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He had asserted that Muslim immigrants (referred to as "Muslim invaders") come to Europe "with the goal of eventually turning Europe into an Islamic state".[26] Macgregor had argued that the German concept of Vergangenheitsbewältigung, used to cope with Germany's Nazi past and its atrocities during World War II, is a "sick mentality".[26] Macgregor had stated that martial law should be instituted on the U.S.-Mexico border and argued for the extrajudicial execution of those who cross the border at unofficial ports of entry.
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In 2020, CNN reviewed his public commentary and

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found he often demonized immigrants and refugees. He warned Mexican cartels were "driving millions of Mexicans with no education, no skills and the wrong culture into the United States, placing them essentially as wards of the American people". He repeatedly advocated instituting martial law at the US-Mexico border and to "shoot people" if necessary.

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After Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, Macgregor appeared on three Fox News programs in February and early March to speak in support of Russia's actions...Macgregor said he believed Russia should be allowed to seize whatever parts of Ukraine it wanted.

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There's plenty more. He sounds like a guy who has extreme and baseless ideas, who is wrong a lot, and who likes to make attention-getting claims and statements.Phat, congratulations on finding another racist, xenophobic, warmongering nut. Would it be too much trouble for you to at least take a glance at someone's Wikipedia page before you start promoting their extreme and/or cockamamie ideas here? That is, unless those are the ideas you yourself want to promote.--Percy

He posted the wiki page. He does not care and embraces these assholes.

Considering that the vast majority of what Phat posts promotes that bullshit, that is exactly what he himself wants to promote!

You're right, let me try replying to Phat again.--Percy

I should have addressed this part of your post more directly: "What if he is right?" can be used about anyone saying anything. Please stop using the weakest of reasons for introducing garbage into threads. In fact, stop introducing garbage into threads altogether. Yeah, that's kind of a major issue in this thread. Any thoughts of your own?--Percy

I asked:

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What if the war in Ukraine never gets won by Ukraine?

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I just want to know the truth. I hear more than one narrative and I dont simply trust the presidential press secretary or the news that I hear.If Macgregor is an echo chamber for the far right agenda, who or what is to say that the powers that currently be don't have their own agenda and narrative? Why can't the government and current administration have an agenda of their own?Is there only one story?Is Zelensky the Saint he is made out to be? Is he in fact a "good guy"? One of "us" ?And the 64 thousand dollar question: Who IS us? Who does the peanut gallery represent?And who do they oppose?

quote:

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If Macgregor is an echo chamber for the far right agenda, who or what is to say that the powers that currently be don't have their own agenda and narrative? Why can't the government and current administration have an agenda of their own?
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He could easily be an echo chamber for the Kremlin. He wouldn’t be on Russian media unless he was supporting the Russian line.

quote:

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Is Zelensky the Saint he is made out to be? Is he in fact a "good guy"? One of "us" ?

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He doesn’t have to be a Saint. He’s a darn sight better than Putin, and he’s got the courage to stand up for his country, even at the risk of his life. Isn’t that enough?

One critique of many modern colleges is that over 90% of the professors vote for the same political party. If someone has said anything racist in the past, you cancel them and dismiss any academic credibility that they may have. As soon as this war started, the majority of the peanut gallery was in lockstep and all agreed
to staunchly oppose Czar Vladimir The Condemned. I never questioned that since it appeared that Putin was in fact the aggressor. Now I am exposed to another narrative that tells me that Putin never wanted to go hard and eliminate Ukraine but that his generals did. Ive also heard an alternative narrative that states that Zelensky is no Saint and that this war is only being supported by NATO due to the military industrial complex, the assets of Ukraine, and the fact that the Western belief is that everyone on earth has a right to freedom.
But at what cost?
And how did Prigozhin turn 180 degrees against Putin? I smell a rat. Explain what sort of political advantage "they" would gain and who "they" are?It couldnt be Trump. The system is closing in on locking him up.There are, after all, at least two political parties globally as well as nationally. Why must only one be kept in power?More to the point, why is there only one answer? I suppose that you want me to throw away all that I hear that "sounds right" or that strikes an emotional chord. Yet the bleeding hearts claim that the poor Ukrainians are worthy of support.
I say its because Ukraine is valuable to NATO. We wouldnt be sending much support to a backwash like Yemen!

Phat, given that it's now possible to find "alternative facts" about absolutely anything at all, how would you go about trying to work out what is most likely to be correct?