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Author Topic:   The one and only non-creationist in this forum.
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3967 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 541 of 558 (682270)
11-30-2012 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by hooah212002
11-30-2012 6:04 PM


Re: travel through time
Sorry, hooah, that was a bunch of hooey from you. Empty assertions of sanity and superiority on the background of dismal failure to address the question. That's what the cat calls an ad hominid hurled by a silly ape or a crypto-creo mouse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by hooah212002, posted 11-30-2012 6:04 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by hooah212002, posted 11-30-2012 8:22 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3967 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 542 of 558 (682276)
11-30-2012 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by Son Goku
11-30-2012 5:57 PM


Re: travel through time
A real sphere is an object. The earth is an object with a hard surface. If space-time is another object that curves and its curvature is what literally keeps the earth in its orbit, that object's surface must be harder than the surface of the earth. Otherwise, the globe may pass through that surface and deviate from the trajectory it is describing around the sun. To leak through the walls of the sun's gravity well in other words. I don't see the folks like you hiding underground for fear of being squashed by the wall of space-time the earth's surface is rubbing against as it glides. Therefore I presume they don't take it literally.
That is the distinction between map and territory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by Son Goku, posted 11-30-2012 5:57 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 543 of 558 (682281)
11-30-2012 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-30-2012 7:00 PM


Re: travel through time
Meow, motherfucker, meow.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-30-2012 7:00 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3967 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 544 of 558 (682282)
11-30-2012 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by Taq
11-29-2012 10:44 AM


Re: travel through time
Entropy increases over time for the whole of existence? That is based on the bigbangist belief in the universal conformal time with a single universal calendar agreed to be valid at every location in the cosmos. I predict Tacky that you will die holding still this idiotic belief in the single arrow of time for the whole of existence. I see that all the cat's explanations of relativity are lost on you completely. Nothing sinks into the brain washed too thin by the bigbanger pseudo-science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by Taq, posted 11-29-2012 10:44 AM Taq has not replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3967 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 545 of 558 (682284)
11-30-2012 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by Son Goku
11-27-2012 3:12 PM


Re: travel through time
Good is that you inadvertently admit here that there could be no preferred direction of time in the space-time manifold and therefore the bigbangist arrow of time and the universal conformal calendar is a piece of sheer creationist gibberish. Even if you are still reifying the map calling it a physical object with a shape where co-ordinates could be physically distorted. Physical shape belongs to three dimensions and it stops there, Sonny. Cannot be transferred literally onto a hypersphere which is a mathematical object and a mental projection that could be grasped with a mind only.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Son Goku, posted 11-27-2012 3:12 PM Son Goku has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by hooah212002, posted 11-30-2012 10:57 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 546 of 558 (682286)
11-30-2012 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-30-2012 10:43 PM


Re: travel through time
Hey, let's pop some Viagras and issue tickets with raging, mega-huge boners.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-30-2012 10:43 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3967 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 547 of 558 (682290)
11-30-2012 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Straggler
11-30-2012 1:50 PM


Re: travel through time
That is the poor IamJoseph utterly confused by the prevaricating bigbangers. The quacks first claim that the Universe is a surface short of a sphere and then pretend such a concoction may literally expand and therefore unlike a real expanding object may have no centre. The quackery goes down well with the gullible crypto-creo mice only. The charlatans' buck stops here with the feline though. No bigbangist snake oil is sold to the moggy.
Edited by Alfred Maddenstein, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Straggler, posted 11-30-2012 1:50 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by hooah212002, posted 11-30-2012 11:36 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied
 Message 549 by hooah212002, posted 11-30-2012 11:40 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied
 Message 550 by hooah212002, posted 11-30-2012 11:56 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 548 of 558 (682293)
11-30-2012 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-30-2012 11:27 PM


Re: travel through time
I'll put my burgers up against anyone, Burger Cocksucker, Dairy Cocksucker, Kentucky Fried Cocksucker...even McCocksuckers

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-30-2012 11:27 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 549 of 558 (682295)
11-30-2012 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-30-2012 11:27 PM


Re: travel through time
Between you and me, I don't chang a lot of chicks.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-30-2012 11:27 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(3)
Message 550 of 558 (682299)
11-30-2012 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-30-2012 11:27 PM


Re: travel through time
It's "BLOR-gons", "Blogon" means "Hello" in "Blorgon.
I mean seriously, is ANYTHING I am saying making sense to you? Scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitates lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock, and as it always has, rock crushes scissors.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-30-2012 11:27 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 551 of 558 (682304)
12-01-2012 2:10 AM


Hi all,
I was asked if I agreed that General Relativity says that spacetime is curved?
Actually I was taught in GR, spacetime becomes curved in response to the effects of matter.
Then told that this curvature in turn affects the behavior of matter.
Sounded stupid then and still does now.
The Earth is spinning in spacetime and that invisible whatever it is, is supposed to affect the Earth.
Some folks have called it Aether with the drag effecting the Earth.
Like a big truck going down the road with the space in it's path curving around it and then coming back together behind the truck.
If you are close enough to the truck that the space closes up behind you that is called drafting and it does not take as much power to maintain your speed.
Racers use it to go faster. When a car is drafting as close as they do the back car is able to go faster and that makes it push the car in front making both cars go faster.
So yes space does curve due to matter moving through it.
How could the space have an effect on that big truck or on the Earth?
There has been some pretty big chunks of rock that has hit the Earth in the past that killed off most life forms and it is still doing what it has always done.
Then we got to gravity where I was told when we consider the effects of gravity, however, we know that the objects will warp the spacetime around them.
When it comes to the GPS system the man who holds 11 patents including the software for the GPS system used Newtonian physics.
Concerning the atomic clock.
quote:
NIST-F1 is referred to as a fountain clock because it uses a fountain-like movement of atoms to measure frequency and time interval. First, a gas of cesium atoms is introduced into the clock's vacuum chamber. Six infrared laser beams then are directed at right angles to each other at the center of the chamber. The lasers gently push the cesium atoms together into a ball. In the process of creating this ball, the lasers slow down the movement of the atoms and cool them to temperatures near absolute zero.
Two vertical lasers are used to gently toss the ball upward (the "fountain" action), and then all of the lasers are turned off. This little push is just enough to loft the ball about a meter high through a microwave-filled cavity. Under the influence of gravity, the ball then falls back down through the microwave cavity.
The round trip up and down through the microwave cavity lasts for about 1 second. During the trip, the atomic states of the atoms might or might not be altered as they interact with the microwave signal. When their trip is finished, another laser is pointed at the atoms. Those atoms whose atomic state were altered by the microwave signal emit light (a state known as fluorescence). The photons, or the tiny packets of light that they emit, are measured by a detector.
This process is repeated many times while the microwave signal in the cavity is tuned to different frequencies. Eventually, a microwave frequency is found that alters the states of most of the cesium atoms and maximizes their fluorescence. This frequency is the natural resonance frequency of the cesium atom (9,192,631,770 Hz), or the frequency used to define the second.
The combination of laser cooling and the fountain design allows NIST-F1 to observe cesium atoms for longer periods, and thus achieve its unprecedented accuracy. Traditional cesium clocks measure room-temperature atoms moving at several hundred meters per second. Since the atoms are moving so fast, the observation time is limited to a few milliseconds. NIST-F1 uses a different approach. Laser cooling drops the temperature of the atoms to a few millionths of a degree above absolute zero, and reduces their thermal velocity to a few centimeters per second. The laser cooled atoms are launched vertically and pass twice through a microwave cavity, once on the way up and once on the way down. The result is an observation time of about one second, which is limited only by the force of gravity pulling the atoms to the ground.
As you might guess, the longer observation times make it easier to tune the microwave frequency. The improved tuning of the microwave frequency leads to a better realization and control of the resonance frequency of cesium. And of course, the improved frequency control leads to what is one of the world's most accurate clocks.
Source
When in a GPS satellite the clock will run faster than one on the Earth's surface so a offset is used to account for the 38,700 ns/per day. Offsets are also used to adjust for the irregular height the satellite travels on its journey as it goes up and down, faster and slower, in it's orbit.
Now to topic.
Existence = state of being.
Non-existence = state of not being.
Either the universe has existed for an infinite eternity in some form.
OR
The universe had a beginning to exist in and from non-existence.
Anyone who believes the universe had a beginning to exist is a creationist, as he/she believes in creation.
All those who believes the universe has always existed in some form is a non-creationist.
Anyone who believes the BBT with it's singularity produced the universe believes in creation from non-existence.
There are those who believe in the String or SuperString hypothesis. They have a universe that is produced by existing material.
There are those who believe in the eternal expanding contraction which produces a new universe.
Sorry BigBangers you are all creationist.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 552 of 558 (682307)
12-01-2012 6:21 AM


Summary.
In this thread, after many methodical posts by several people, we have finally convinced ICANT that General Relativity says what General Relativity says. He still thinks those ideas are stupid, but at least the ideas are now inside the mental category of General Relativity.
This may help in the next thread where if statements by GPS satellite constructors say "This satellite requires General Relativity", he will now know what ideas are encompassed by that statement and hence what the satellite builders are actually saying, rather than somehow reading "This satellite requires General Relativity" as not involving the curvature of spacetime.

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 553 of 558 (682316)
12-01-2012 8:35 AM


Summation
ICANT has learned nothing, yet I'm thankful to Son Goku and NoNukes for taking the time to explain a lot about relativity that I had forgotten, or didn't even know.
As for ICANT: Sorry buddy, but you are not, and never will be, smarter than Einstein.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 554 of 558 (682333)
12-01-2012 10:54 AM


Summation - Inmate as Warden
I still think the premise of this thread was a real hoot -- Type up your ideas on the origin of the universe or some related topic and have EvC's resident Arkham escapee grade your paper with incoherent remarks.
At least some real physics was discussed when Son Goku showed up. I'm always down for that. But unlike Son I am under no illusion that ICANT learned anything. Don't really care about that. I did like the anecdote about Goku explaining Relativity to his uncles. Imagine learning physics from a Super Saiyan. What happens when you act up in class.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 555 of 558 (682560)
12-03-2012 5:20 PM


The OP might as well have been Bill Cosby:
Fortunately, smarter people started talking and we ended up with some good explanations that were worth reading.

  
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