Faith writes:
But we do. This is preached all the time.
Here's the difference, which I hope I can explain clearly enough:
Catholicism says you are SAVED by faith plus works. The works are essential to salvation.
Protestantism says you are saved by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone:
Right, so it is possible in Protestantism to be saved without performing any works of charity, love, or compassion? If it is not, then I do not see the point in removing them from the reuqirements for salvation. If we are still required to live a christlike life, why is this loophole allowed to exist?
Faith writes:
That is, if our works contribute to our salvation then we can boast and take credit for our salvation, but all glory and honor go to Christ for saving us without our help.
I would not agree with this statement. If a God exists, it was he/she/it that permitted our spirit to even have an opportunity to work toward salvation. And it is he/she/it that will allow that salvation. One still requires the faith that you speak of and I am not in agreement that somebody must boast because they do good works. I have watched many people do good works without even needing a thank you for doing so. In fact, as far as I was taught in Catholic Sunday School growing up, good works should be done for no praise, no thanks and no expectations of reward, even salvation (which is still determined by god).
Faith writes:
Luther felt this strongly as a devoted Augustinian monk. He drove his confessors crazy with long drawn out sessions in which he tried to confess every little thing he ever did wrong and never felt he'd reached a point where he could relax and accept forgiveness of his sins. You could say he was obsessed and no doubt he was, but he was also right, he recognized the problem and didn't know how to solve it. His superior tried to get him to trust God but Luther was too aware that even one little unconfessed sin would damn him. That would include any sin of omission, any failure to perform a good deed that was called for. When his longsuffering superior tried to get him to focus on the love of God, he could only confess "Love God? I hate him!" because nothing he did could release him from his sense of condemnation for his sins at God's hand.
Well, yes and no. The Catholic faith, similar to the Protestants, says that all of our sins are forgiven through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Sure, we should confess them when it is possible because that is admitting before the priest and God that you are not perfect, you are not Jesus, but you try your hardest to be and you are willing to admit when you are wrong.
I find this issue Martin Luther had to be something I could see coming out of either main branch of Christianity. The stakes in this game of life are absolutely enormous when you look at it through the lens of religion. We are talking about everlasting life, who would want to f*** that up? Luther was going above and beyond what is actually called for when it comes to confession because he was extremely frightened of not achieving this ridiculously amazing prize that was put in front of him.
Faith writes:
Another is that if our works have anything to do with whether we are saved or not it puts us on a treadmill of anxiety about whether or not we've ever done ENOUGH to merit salvation, and if we're honest we know we could never do enough. If any of it depends on me, forget it, I'm sunk, no matter how much I try to be a good Christian. Sometimes I have fallen into a works-based consciousness myself without really being aware of it and had to pray myself out of it. Yikes.
I think that we should always look at the world with a works based consciousness, in agreement with the Catholic Church, even no longer being Catholic. I understand that you can never know if you have done enough, but you also can never know if you have chosen the correct faith! I say if we have the option to help, we should (as I now know you agree).
However, I also do not think that Jesus' message was simply have faith. In fact, it would make sense that works are part of the requirement as well, since Jesus sent his apostles out to perform miracles and do good deeds in his name.
Faith writes:
He went on in this state for a long time. He didn't grasp the principle of salvation by grace alone until after he'd nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Wittenberg Church. Those theses were intended as points for debate, and reflected a common practice of the day. He had no intention of leaving the Church, he was only seeking reform at that point.
These were points for debate and the Catholics that formed the Councils of Trent actually invited Protestants to debate these specific points of theology. However, the two invited to the council did not arrive. Perhaps if they had, we would have a completely different form of Christianity in this world.
Also, I am aware there was probably a lot of fear of death held by the two invited protestants.
Faith writes:
We are HIS workmanship. We are "created in Christ Jesus" and we are created "UNTO GOOD WORKS." In Him who has saved us we now do good works that He has ordained for us, by the power to do them in His Spirit which we now have. We are no longer driven by a need for perfection because He has saved us. We now try to learn to depend completely on Him and do what HE wants of us -- by faith.
Okay, so we do good works because Jesus commanded...but we do not feel that his command to do good works was a requirement? I get what you are saying, only faith in Jesus is required and that faith leads to good works, so they get done. But, it seems like this plan gives individuals a loophole should a specific good work not appeal to them.
As far as not striving for perfection, the Catholic faith tells us also that we will never be perfect, we will always be flawed and we will sin. I think that striving for perfection is a great ideal, even though it is pretty much unattainable.
Faith writes:
I hope this makes sense.
Yeah, I think I got a little better understanding of it now.
The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. -Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. -Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing!
What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. -Robin Williams-
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