Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 1186 of 1352 (813237)
06-24-2017 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1166 by ICANT
06-23-2017 3:48 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
So can you tell me how much water was required to cover a mass of land that we don't know the elevation of?
Look for evidence in the rock strata. How deep is the sediment you think was deposited by the Flood? IIRC Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase strata total 10,000 ft.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1166 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2017 3:48 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1187 by CRR, posted 06-26-2017 5:51 AM 14174dm has not replied
 Message 1199 by Pressie, posted 06-27-2017 5:00 AM 14174dm has not replied
 Message 1200 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 5:07 AM 14174dm has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2243 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1187 of 1352 (813310)
06-26-2017 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1186 by 14174dm
06-24-2017 8:29 PM


how much water?
If the world's water was converted to a uniform layer over the Earth's surface it would be 2.7km thick. Clearly if Mt Everest, 9km high, existed at the time it could not have been covered by a global flood. However the top of Everest has marine fossils so even by conventional geology it must once have been much lower. Possibly pre-flood mountains over 1,000m high could have been covered by Noah's Flood. During and after the flood there could have been large vertical tectonic movements to produce great depths of sediment in places and mountains that today are at heights greater than the maximum depth of the flood.
How did the waters of Noahs Flood drain - creation.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1186 by 14174dm, posted 06-24-2017 8:29 PM 14174dm has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1188 by jar, posted 06-26-2017 7:04 AM CRR has not replied
 Message 1189 by Tangle, posted 06-26-2017 7:16 AM CRR has not replied
 Message 1190 by JonF, posted 06-26-2017 8:56 AM CRR has not replied
 Message 1197 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 4:36 AM CRR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 1188 of 1352 (813312)
06-26-2017 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by CRR
06-26-2017 5:51 AM


Re: how much water?
The people that write the fantasies for Creation.com are either deluded, willfully ignorant or most likely totally dishonest and without morals.
There is nothing in either of the Biblical Flood fables that suggests mountains rising after the flood. They are simply making shit up to support their fantasy; perverting the Bible with their truly stupid additions.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by CRR, posted 06-26-2017 5:51 AM CRR has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1189 of 1352 (813314)
06-26-2017 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by CRR
06-26-2017 5:51 AM


Re: how much water?
The thing is, had the bible not been written, the geology, the fossils, taxonomy, the genetics and everything else would look exactly the same and you'd be coming to exactly the same conclusions as millions of scientists have come to over the last few hundred years.
The only reason you're forced to invent biblical happenings and attempt to force them into modern science's understandings is because you need to believe in an iron age myth. It's truly bizarre - it's bad science and it's bad biblically.
Every new scientific advancement that touches on your strange literalist belief has to be challenged and force fitted into the biblical paradigm - even if you have to make stuff up - stuff thta's not in the bible - to do it. But it can't be done, it doesn't fit and you make yourself look stupid for trying.
How come your critical thinking fails you only when a fact contradicts the bible? Can you explain that?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by CRR, posted 06-26-2017 5:51 AM CRR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1195 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 4:18 AM Tangle has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1190 of 1352 (813323)
06-26-2017 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by CRR
06-26-2017 5:51 AM


Re: how much water?
If the world's water was converted to a uniform layer over the Earth's surface it would be 2.7km thick
No. If it was converted to a uniform layer over a perfect sphere the size of the Earth it would be 2.7 km thick, and there would be no land-based life.
SFW?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by CRR, posted 06-26-2017 5:51 AM CRR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1196 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 4:30 AM JonF has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1191 of 1352 (813373)
06-27-2017 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1177 by Coyote
06-23-2017 8:00 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes:
Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
If you are placing the dividing of the continents 109 years after the flood, the Atlantic Ocean gap would have had to spread 1 mile per year between then and 1492 when major European exploration began--and then it would have had to stop abruptly!
What mechanism accounts for this?
Why do you have to have a mechanism?
God divided the continents in a nano second. They are still moving a small amount as they come to a stop.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1177 by Coyote, posted 06-23-2017 8:00 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1204 by Coyote, posted 06-27-2017 10:03 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1192 of 1352 (813375)
06-27-2017 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1178 by Boof
06-23-2017 8:43 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Boof, welcome to EvC as my first time replying to you.
Boof writes:
So a couple of quick questions for you ICant. Under your model how long did Noah and all his hundreds / thousands of animals need to survive on the ark for
12 Jewish months and 10 days, or possibly 13 Jewish months and 10 days.
Boof writes:
and where did they get all their water from?
It was not listed in Noah's things to do to supply the water or to remove the waste. He was told to build an ark and to gather food.
Everything else was taken care of by God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1178 by Boof, posted 06-23-2017 8:43 PM Boof has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1193 of 1352 (813376)
06-27-2017 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1182 by jar
06-24-2017 7:32 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Change leaves evidence. Remove the water from below ground and you will find evidence of that at the surface. San Joaquin Valley has subsided over 30 feet just from pumping irrigation water.
I live in Florida and I know that when water is pumped out of a pocket in the earth no matter what size it is the dirt and rock above can and does sink into the cavern. This is where the water of the flood receded too. The caverns and the holes created by some collapsing.
Everybody wants to know where the water came from and where it went. It came from under ground and from the sky. It went back into the sky and the caverns underground or caved in holes in the surface.
The flood is no fantasy.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1182 by jar, posted 06-24-2017 7:32 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1203 by jar, posted 06-27-2017 8:46 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1194 of 1352 (813377)
06-27-2017 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1183 by ringo
06-24-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
And the "eruption" of the fountains of the deep was a part of that idea.
The Bible says nothing about an "eruption", it says that God opened the fountains of the deep.
You can bust a water pipe and have an eruption. But if you turn the valve and open it you have a flow not an eruption.
ringo writes:
If God miraculously turned the fountains on and off, why do you say anything about science at all? Why not just say God poofed the water into existence and then poofed it out of existence?
Yes God could have just poofed all the water required to flood the earth by spiting it into the oceans.
He could have also sunk the land mass in the surrounding water, just like He made it rise out of the water.
But He did not. He chose to have the water available in the earth and sky to use for the flood.
Then after the flood He could use the water to cool the asthenosphere when He divided the earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by ringo, posted 06-24-2017 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1208 by ringo, posted 06-27-2017 11:53 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1195 of 1352 (813381)
06-27-2017 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1189 by Tangle
06-26-2017 7:16 AM


Re: how much water?
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
The only reason you're forced to invent biblical happenings and attempt to force them into modern science's understandings is because you need to believe in an iron age myth. It's truly bizarre - it's bad science and it's bad biblically.
What is truly bizarre and pathetic is that people who don't believe in God tells me:
SCIENCE STORY
Non-existence created existence and everything in it.
Chaos created order.
Non-Life created life.
Non-Consciousness created consciousness.
Non-rational created rational.
Blind created vision.
Deaf created hearing.
There is no mechanism for non-existence to create existence. Therefore none of the others would have ever taken place.
Those people who believe the above call me all kind of names and tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Maybe so but it is much harder to believe that non-existence created existence, than In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. It takes much more faith to believe in the Science Story than the Bible Story.
The reason people will believe that non-existence can create existence is because they want no higher power than they are.
When the woman ate the fruit and became as God knowing good and evil, every since then mankind have wanted to be their own God and make their own rules.
BIBLE STORY
The Bible says God created the universe.
The Bible says :God created man in His own image.
When God created the universe He did a perfect job.
That earth had no oceans only a river that divided into 4 that watered the whole earth.
Man messed up and sin entered the universe.
At some point in the light period God created the heavens and the earth God destroyed mankind all animals and all the cities they had built.
Then God created darkness that is found at Genesis 1:2.
When that period of darkness came to an end God called it 'day one'.
Then He had to do some work as the earth was not suitable for man to inhabit.
Now a God that could create this universe and everything in it would have no problem with a little flood to cover the land mass of the earth. He had already covered it one time probably trillions of years ago as we count time.
Now if you or anyone else would like to discuss my assertions feel free to start a thread and send me an email. My email address is in my profile.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1189 by Tangle, posted 06-26-2017 7:16 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1198 by Tangle, posted 06-27-2017 4:46 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1196 of 1352 (813382)
06-27-2017 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1190 by JonF
06-26-2017 8:56 AM


Re: how much water?
Hi Jon,
JonF writes:
No. If it was converted to a uniform layer over a perfect sphere the size of the Earth it would be 2.7 km thick, and there would be no land-based life.
That would equal 8,856 feet.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1190 by JonF, posted 06-26-2017 8:56 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1201 by JonF, posted 06-27-2017 8:18 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1197 of 1352 (813383)
06-27-2017 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by CRR
06-26-2017 5:51 AM


Re: how much water?
Hi Jon,
JonF writes:
During and after the flood there could have been large vertical tectonic movements to produce great depths of sediment in places and mountains that today are at heights greater than the maximum depth of the flood.
After the flood in the days of Peleg God divided the earth and that is when all the mountain ranges were created.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by CRR, posted 06-26-2017 5:51 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1202 by JonF, posted 06-27-2017 8:19 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 1230 by CRR, posted 06-28-2017 12:39 AM ICANT has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1198 of 1352 (813385)
06-27-2017 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1195 by ICANT
06-27-2017 4:18 AM


Re: how much water?
ICANT writes:
Now a God that could create this universe and everything in it would have no problem with a little flood to cover the land mass of the earth. He had already covered it one time probably trillions of years ago as we count time.
Sure, fictional gods can do anything at all. But your arguments use naturalistic solutions until they fail, then you invoke the miracle. It always puzzles me why you don't call the whole thing miraculous and have done with it. Why not live your beliefs fully?
But you failed to answer my question, perhaps you could do it now?
quote:
ICANT writes:
As the single land mass would have no mountains as the earth had not been divided at that point. That happened at least 109 years after the flood as the earth was divided in the days of Peleg.
Pardon my confusion but....
quote:
and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.
Genesis 8:4

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1195 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 4:18 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 1199 of 1352 (813386)
06-27-2017 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1186 by 14174dm
06-24-2017 8:29 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
14174dm writes:
Look for evidence in the rock strata. How deep is the sediment you think was deposited by the Flood? IIRC Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase strata total 10,000 ft.
Just look at the sediments above the outcrops of the Jo'burg Dome. None. No global flood.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1186 by 14174dm, posted 06-24-2017 8:29 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1200 of 1352 (813387)
06-27-2017 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1186 by 14174dm
06-24-2017 8:29 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi 1417dm,
1417dm writes:
Look for evidence in the rock strata. How deep is the sediment you think was deposited by the Flood? IIRC Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase strata total 10,000 ft.
The Bay of Fundy rises and falls 55 feet every 12 hours minus a few minutes.It has been doing it since between 2247 BC and 2008 BC.
That is between 4,264 years and 4,015 years in the past.
It is still there on the shoreline. It comes and goes and leaves little if any sediment and has not eroded the seaside very much.
So I don't think there would be any more sediment than a small local flood would produce.
The Grand Canyon was formed during and after the days of Peleg, when the earth was divided..
By the way I think all that strata was formed over trillions of years, as we know time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1186 by 14174dm, posted 06-24-2017 8:29 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024