The 2016 United States Presidential Election

You all seem to be having a problem with the question of whom Jesus is addressing. He's addressing YOU. YOU are to take care of your neighbor. YOU are not to tell SOMEBODY ELSE to take care of their neighbor and YOU are not to send the police to MAKE them take care of their neighbor. YOU are to do whatever YOU can do, CHEERFULLY, as God also says He loves a cheerful giver, but instead you are for forcing a man to do something he clearly does not want to do.Yes, in this case the man had originally volunteered his hotel but then he changed his mind because he wasn't GIVING it, he wanted to be paid for its use and then wasn't happy with the amount he was going to get. You have no right to tell him what to do or how to feel about it.And when you do help your neighbor, choosing to help one neighbor over another, to bring in people who hate your immediate neighbor, is in my opinion criminal in*sanity.Invoking Jesus as commanding such in*sanity is some kind of blasphemy.What do you think about the American Constitutional protection against being forced to put up soldiers in your home? That's what England did to the early colonists, so they had to forbid it legally.Also, in the Bible when strangers were incorporated into ancient Israel they were required to learn and accept the religion of Israel. But you all apparently think it's OK for Muslims whose beliefs are absolutely alien to the West and subversive of our beliefs, not to have to assimilate and adapt. All over Europe there are "no-go" zones where hostile Muslims keep out the police and incubate their hatred in their own isolated communities. So what happens? You get women raped in Sweden, you get cars torched in Marseille and people shot to death in a dance hall and the oiffice of a magazine, but nobody suggests stopping the reason for it. Wow, the world has gone mad. In America this guy stabs a bunch of people in Ohio and it's just brushed off. Like the other incidents by Muslims. Nobody will face the fact that Muslims are IDEOLOGY-DRIVEN against Amerca and the West at large. It can only get worse as their humbers increase, but nobody cares about US, just about them. This should be the definition of in*sanity. CRIMINAL.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Not quite - he asked about the terms if he offered his hotel, but never actually did so. He considered the offer (7 Euros per refugee per day) absurdly low.I actually agree with Faith on this one. It's all well and good to say that it's my Christian duty to offer something of my own free will; but that does not mean that if I refuse the duty of the state is to requisition it by force - compensation or no.It's important to consider the effects of this sort of decision as well. When we have an already tense situation with people inciting violence against refugees; this is going to do the very opposite of defuse things. This is exactly the sort of thing that encourages people to take violent action or vote for the fascists.

I, too, am with Faith and I think most other people on this one, but the unfortunate hotel owner is not the point here. Faith offered him as evidence of what is happening in Europe: But this isn't what is happening in Europe.I think everyone on both sides of the political fence is against shoving people off their property to make way for refugees, but it's a big world out there and one can always find examples of the unfair, the arbitrary, the wrong. There's a big difference between trends and policies on the one hand and one-time unusual events on the other.--Percy

Really? After four EvC members show that they clearly justify forcing this old man to accept refugees against his will? NoNukes, Tanypteryx, jar and Asgara. Only Caffeine said otherwise. I myself read this as the Trend itself. EvC is a remarkable representation of the Leftist views that are forcing refugees on the citizens of all those European countries, and want to see it in America too, calling us all racists and xenophobes who think it is a dangerous idea, and even invoking Jesus against us. The opinions of members of EvC can probably be counted on to reflect the attitudes of Leftists in Europe too.You would prefer to see the police action against the hotel ownert as an isolated mistake, and I can hope you are right, but nevertheless I suspect this is the spearpoint of a trend that would easily escalate if there is no action taken against it. And caffeine is no doubt right, the citizens of the countries involved may rise up, there could be a civil war. I personally think the authoritarian fascist trend is going to come from the Left this time, to put down any such uprising, because it's the Left that is promoting One World Government, open borders, the dissolution of sovereign states, and the overwhelming of the West by Muslims whose ultimate agenda is worldwide Kalifa even if many of them have no clue how they are being manipulated to that end. It's the Left in the US that keeps supporting the idea of One World government, and EvC is again a representative of that opinion; it's the conservatives who object to it.. The powers behind all these big movements probably don't care who starts the war, they'll be happy to see war tear apart the West whoever takes the bait and whoever is the strongest.abe: Let me add this concern of my own that has been percolating in the back of my head since I heard Trump's recent speech about America First and so on. At one point he tossed in a short phrase about how Globalism is a good thing but... it went by so fast you could have missed it, and I haven't seen anybody comment on it yet, not that I keep up with all the news. It hit me as a possible sign to globalists that in spite of all his wonderful freedom-loving sovereign-nation rhetoric he may really be working for them. That would be very jesuitical of him to come out totally as one thing while serving another purpose in reality. Of course I don't want to think of him as duplicitous and jesuitical, but that one short statement really startled me. I guess I'll have to write a blog post about it.ABE: I listened to the first part of the speech again and what he actually said was "Global is wonderful but..." "Global" isn't "globalISM" but it still bothers me and I'm going to write a blog post about it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Actually what we said is not quite that. What we said is that Jesus charged us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, protect the weak, heal the sick ...What we actually said is that the Government is also charged to provide for the public welfare. The way that is done is by using the resources of the many and directing to resources towards solving particular needs. One such is to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, protect the weak, heal the sick and one of the tools Government uses for that includes the power of eminent domain. That allows a Government to appropriate private property for public use while providing compensation.In most cases the person whose property gets appropriated feels the compensation is inadequate. Yup. That does happen.However it is not stealing. It is not illegal. It is a power that we the citizens have given to governments to carry out the task of providing for the public good.Whether is is easements or right of way or hotel rooms or most anything else is irrelevant. Whether the people whose property is appropriated feel adequately compensated is irrelevant. There are even processes in place to allow the individual to appeal the issue of compensation.

Exactly as I said: you justify forcing the man to give up his hotel against his will.

You simply can't resist lying, can you Faith?The man was not forced to give up his hotel, the was forced to rent room at a price he did not like and it was done lawfully and for a societal reason.

Typical obfuscating pedantry plus typical accusatory ad hominem. Let me rephrase:Exactly as I said, you justify forcing the man to give up his hotel to the state to use against his will.ABE: No, let me try one more time:Exactly as I said, you justify forcing the man to let the state use his hotel against his will.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Opinions

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Trump's 'news' source: Alien lizards, fluoride mind control and voter fraud

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By Dana Milbank Opinion writer

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November 28

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"Report: Three Million Votes in Presidential Election Cast by Illegal Aliens; Trump may have won popular vote.

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Infowars, website of leading conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, Nov. 14

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"In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.

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Donald Trump, president-elect of the United States, Nov. 27
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Jones’s rants would be funny if the soon-to-be most powerful man in the world didn’t rely so heavily on them.

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Trump, the New York Times reported, called Jones after the election to thank him for his support. Trump has been on the Jones show and praised the host’s amazing reputation; Trump adviser Roger Stone is an Infowars regular.
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As the Right Wing Watch website has documented, Jones has alleged that the U.S. government was responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks (Jones posted an old video Monday in which Trump appeared to suggest that aircraft alone couldn’t have brought down the towers), the Oklahoma City bombings and mass shootings such as Sandy Hook.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/...df-600bd9d38a02_story.html

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I raised the issue of the possibility of Trump's 9/11 views after the South Carolina debate in early February. (my posts were in the April-May vicinity I suppose, but I remember Percy responding to them anyway).Here are google pages on the issue.
GoogleThe hits mostly seem to be old material (from the primaries) where the GOP partisans are attempting to smear him as a 9/11 Truther for various reasons.I'm not sure how groundbreaking the Milbank accusations are though. I haven't been able to research them but it seems a possibility that Jones possibly held back from releasing an "old video" before the election out of fear that it could hurt Trump.Was the video never seen until late November of 2016 or is it something that has been available for a long time?Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

That bothered me too, that Trump rejects the standard explanation of the downing of the twin towers, as I've considered the "truthers" to be total nuts questioning that.But I hadn't heard his particular take on it before: how could a plane just slice through those vertical steel frames that girded the outside of the entire building, segments of which we can see standing eerily in the wreckage afterward? Wouldn't the wings of the plane just be sheared off by the collision? In fact wouldn't the metal body of the whole plane just break up? Instead it cut right through the skin of the building like butter. I don't see how bombs could have made that possible either though. And maybe just the speed of the plane is enough to account for it?I know the "bomb" sounds so many use for evidence against the standard explanation were clearly established to be the sound of bodies of people jumping from the burning part of the buildings hitting the ground outside the lobby, that are heard in the film that was made of the firefighter response to the disaster. Anyway, Trump's view is one I hadn't heard before, and I'm not ready to dismiss it out of hand. There are plots within plots within plots going on these days, anything is possible.

I'm not bothered (Milbank sure is bothered by just about everything about Trump).I should have checked google "news" (as opposed to the basic web search) on this issue. It has lots of relevant hits.Google

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Alex Jones Uses Trump's 2001 Remarks To Further 9/11 Inside Job ...

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Media Matters for America-Nov 28, 2016

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Trump Ally Alex Jones Uses Trump's 2001 Remarks To Further 9/11 ... and self-described "founding father" of the "9/11 Truth Movement" -- and ...

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How Infowars and Breitbart could make lots of trouble for President ...
Washington Post-Nov 30, 2016

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Roger Stone: InfoWars Is 'Far More Credible' Than CNN
Mediaite-Nov 28, 2016

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Trump vs. the truth
Opinion-New York Daily News-Nov 29, 2016

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Trump's election shed more light on 9/11 truth: Scholar

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Press TV-Nov 27, 2016

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Donald Trump's presidential election victory despite running an Islamophobic campaign shows how the September 11, 2001 attacks set the ...

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Donald Trump Vows To Reopen 9/11 Investigation: Fake News ...

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The Inquisitr-Nov 13, 2016

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Donald Trump Vows To Reopen 9/11 Investigation: Fake News Report Sparks Excitement Among Members Of The 'Truth Movement'.

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Donald Trump and the Rise of Alt-Reality Media

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POLITICO Magazine-Nov 25, 2016

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As Trump slouched toward the nomination, he was backed by a ... He is a 9/11 truther, who believes the U.S. government conspired in the ...

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A Comprehensive Guide To Alex Jones: Conspiracy Theorist And ...

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Media Matters for America (blog)-Dec 1, 2016

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Donald Trump has taken Jones from the fringes into the mainstream ..... During a 2006 speech at a 9/11 truther conference, Jones said: The ...

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Erica Lafferty Lost Her Mother in Sandy Hook. Trumps Ties to ...

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Daily Beast-Nov 18, 2016

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For those keeping track, yes, Trump called a 9/11 truther before he phoned the Pentagon. On the Jan. 13, 2015, edition of his show, Jones ...

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Sandy Hook Fake Insists Donald Trump Ally Alex Jones: Conspiracy ...
International Business Times-Nov 18, 2016

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Donald Trump September 11 Interview: He Said There Is No Way ...

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The Inquisitr-Nov 27, 2016

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Richard Gage, who originated the September 11 Truther group Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, has dedicated his life to digging up the ...

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Key Trump Backer and 9/11 Truther Joins Digital War on Fake News

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Gizmodo India-Nov 18, 2016

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The soldiers in the war on fake news have a new ally: 9/11 truther and prominent Trump supporter Alex Jones. Alex Jones is the founder of ...

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9/11, global elites and goblins: How America's top conspiracy ...

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NEWS.com.au-Nov 26, 2016

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If you want to know what powers Mr Trump, he said, individually it's a love of ... infrastructure that is outdated, [but] InfoWars is stone cold truth.

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Was 11/8 a New 9/11? The Election That Changed Everything and ...

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Truth-Out-Dec 1, 2016

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In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, "regime change" became the phrase du jour. ... Donald Trump's administration, now filling up with racists, ...

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And that's just from page one.Anyway, I'm not bothered, and I find the issue interesting.Roger Stone said Alex Jones has far more listeners than CNN does according to the ratings. Interesting times. Alex Jones used to be quite popular with minority communities in New York (Puerto Ricans, for example, would often bring him up and expect people to know who he was), but he might not be quite as popular now due to his harsh immigration views. He was little known in most places for a long time after 9/11 but seems to be gaining awareness. Trump's election is interesting indeed.

Not only did Trump loose by nearly 3 million votes (a very large amount), but exit polls showed that 70% of Americans favored a pathway to citizenship for illegals (no deportation!) and a shocking 54% opposed "the Wall" being built.The GOP won because they found a great (opposition) candidate in Hillary Clinton. That was the best recruitment they could have dreamed of. That enabled Trump (with his 61% negatives verses 37% positives) to win the electoral college.I posted (before the Iowa caucus) that it was a joke that Hillary would be the Democratic nominee with her 54% negative ratings. I said that she was an unelectable fraud. Her negatives remained at 54% on election day, and her positives were the exact same 44%.CNN said, during the times of November 8 voter returns coming in, it was groundbreaking that we have 2 candidates with overall negatives like these too.It was more amazing that both had double digit negatives. More amazing yet that the one with 61% negatives actually won (electoral votes anyway).| Cook Political Report has updated results for every state and nationEdited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

You don't believe those exit polls do you? Polls galore showed Hillary was going to win before the election. It's all rigged.

Exit polls are based on very large samples of actual voters leaving polling stations. Yes, each polling station gets sampled (or a massive amount of them). Even states like Wyoming and Delaware get a large sample of voters opinions (as well as the actual voters telling how they actually voted)Pre-election polls have very small samples of the entire nation (and dreadfully small samples from each individual state), and are problematic when it comes to deciding the "likely" demographic makeup might be on election day.I was amazed that Hillary only lost Texas by 9.0%, Arizona by 3.5%, and Florida by 1.2%.For an election that saw the GOP perform much better nationwide than typically, it should send terrifying message to the Republican individual's heart.Trump lost nationally by about 1.5%+ in 2016Better than the 3.9% loss in 2012 and the 7.5% loss in 2008.Worse than the 2.45% GOP win in 2004 and the 0.5% Democratic (popular vote) win in 2000.Arizona and Texas haven't done so good for Democrats since 1996. Clinton lost Texas by 6% in 1996 but he won nationwide by 8.5%. Gore lost Arizona by about 6% in 2000 but it voted GOP by double digits since then.I'm not so sure the Republicans should be too excited.They lost Virginia by 5.4% as well as loosing Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada.North Carolina was won by less than 4% so it too might be getting closer.Trump was a bad candidate but the "Trump effect" was no more devastating for the GOP than Hillary was hurtful to Democratic performance.And Hillary did win the popular vote by about the same amount the opinion polls had her winning. The polls were accurate.

I just quoted a verse for the Bible telling folks that they shall allow gleaning. That means that God told folks that they shall provide for their neighbor. It is not a voluntary thing at all. It was a commandment with the force of law.You seem to be having a problem taking the Bible at face value. What is the commandment is second only to the greatest commandment?Beyond that, Jesus instructions for Christians are not voluntary. If you call yourself a Christian, then you must follow Jesus example and teachings.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : Fix tag