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Author Topic:   Christian Laws
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 376 of 392 (559186)
05-07-2010 10:36 AM


Richh,
Over here in Thoughts.com we are talking about 1 Corinthians 15:45.
The Room is "Christianity" and the Thread is "1 Cor. 15:45".
Come on over if you have some insight on this (and have time).
Click here:
http://www.thoughts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
Richh
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 94
From: Long Island, New York
Joined: 07-21-2009


Message 377 of 392 (561988)
05-24-2010 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by jaywill
05-06-2010 12:04 PM


Re: Interpretation
One thing is for sure - justification is not by law or by 'works of law', but but grace through faith.
Gal. 5:4 You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Rom. 3:20 Because out of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin... 3:24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 3:28 For we account that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
And yet this free, gracious, righteous justification does not nullify the law, but establishes it!
Rom. 3:31 Do we then make the law of no effect through faith? Absolutely not! Rather, we establish the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by jaywill, posted 05-06-2010 12:04 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 799 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 378 of 392 (571090)
07-30-2010 9:54 AM


What I often have trouble grasping is the huge contradictions in christian law/beliefs. Let me cite a few for you now.
1. Old - Honour your mother and father / New - Anyone who does not hate his own mother and father is not worthy of me.
2. Old - An eye for an eye / New - If someone strikes you on one cheek turn to him the other also.
3. Old - Israelites are the chosen people / New - Paul preaches and converts many gentiles.
4. Old Paul is a murderer / New Paul suffers beatings, imprisonment and shipwreck.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 379 of 392 (571098)
07-30-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Big_Al35
07-30-2010 9:54 AM


Big_Al35 writes:
What I often have trouble grasping is the huge contradictions in christian law/beliefs. Let me cite a few for you now. (cited list elided).
It has always seemed to me that the difference between the old and new is a defining characteristic of Christianity.
What strikes me a contradictory, is that fundamentalists and other conservative Christians emphasize so much of the old, and ignore so much of the new. I sometimes wonder whether there is anything at all Christian about a religion that so ignores the teachings of Jesus, and so emphasizes the older Jewish traditions that Jesus was opposing.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Big_Al35, posted 07-30-2010 9:54 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 380 of 392 (571099)
07-30-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Big_Al35
07-30-2010 9:54 AM


What Are the Christian Laws?
quote:
What I often have trouble grasping is the huge contradictions in christian law/beliefs. Let me cite a few for you now.
This thread isn't to discuss contradictions in the Bible. This purpose of this thread is to list the Christian Laws.
Please read the OP (Message 1) and Message 6 to understand the issue that began this thread.
By law, I mean something legally binding and enforced by a controlling authority.
I don't see that you've listed anything that can be considered a Christian Law.
Please stick to the topic.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Big_Al35, posted 07-30-2010 9:54 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Big_Al35, posted 07-30-2010 10:51 AM purpledawn has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 799 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 381 of 392 (571102)
07-30-2010 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by purpledawn
07-30-2010 10:40 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
By law, I mean something legally binding and enforced by a controlling authority.
I am not sure that I understand what you mean. Aren't those christian laws that I stated?
Legally binding?? You mean like a parking ticket offence?
Christian laws are not legally binding as far as I understand it. Only government laws are legally binding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by purpledawn, posted 07-30-2010 10:40 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by purpledawn, posted 07-30-2010 11:09 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 382 of 392 (571107)
07-30-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 381 by Big_Al35
07-30-2010 10:51 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
quote:
I am not sure that I understand what you mean. Aren't those christian laws that I stated?
Legally binding?? You mean like a parking ticket offence?
Christian laws are not legally binding as far as I understand it. Only government laws are legally binding.
Please read the opening post and Message 6. That is the whole issue of this discussion.
Peg says Christians have laws (legally binding), I contend that Christianity does not have legally binding laws separate from the local governing authorities.
She has been unable to list any laws that are legally binding other than what is legally binding by local governments. (Don't steal, don't murder, don't falsely accuse, etc.)
She can't even tell me clearly what standards all Christians will be held accountable to on judgment day.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Big_Al35, posted 07-30-2010 10:51 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Peg, posted 08-03-2010 1:12 AM purpledawn has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 383 of 392 (571956)
08-03-2010 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by purpledawn
07-30-2010 11:09 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
purpledawn writes:
She can't even tell me clearly what standards all Christians will be held accountable to on judgment day.
Here is my recap on Christian laws.
Firstly, the laws for christians were not laid down in the same way as the mosaic law was. That law was written up as a list of binding laws...the christian laws were written down amongst the writings of the NT rather then in one long list.
We know that there are commandments written for John speaks of the commandments of God in 1John 5:2-3 "By this we gain the knowledge that we are loving the children of God, when we are loving God and doing his commandments. 3For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments"
John wasnt speaking about the mosaic laws here. Those laws were not what the christians were following. They were following the 'law of the christ' according to Paul in 1Cor 9:21 "...I am under law toward Christ..."
The laws of the Christ are expressed in both direct commands, and in principles. If a christian was to deliberately disregard either of these, then they would be judged adversely for their attitude toward such things.
quote:
Acts 15:28For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication"
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom"
John 13:34 "I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.
James 1:27 "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world"
James 4:4 "Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God"
1John 2:15 "Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16because everything in the worldthe desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of lifedoes not originate with the Father, but originates with the world"
Matt 7:21 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will"
Matt 26:52 Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."
Matt 7:1 Stop judging that you may not be judged"
I could keep going thru the NT and pick out verses but rather then that i want to end with Jesus words about how christians will be judged.
quote:
But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken is what will judge him in the last day; 49because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. 50Also, I know that his commandment means everlasting life. Therefore the things I speak, just as the Father has told me [them], so I speak [them].
  —Jesus Christ:John 12:47
These words show that the things which Jesus and his disciples taught and recorded in the NT are the things by which Christians and all mankind will be judged. Jesus teachings/principles are the 'laws of the Christ' and they constitute the standards by which God will judge us.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by purpledawn, posted 07-30-2010 11:09 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 384 by purpledawn, posted 08-03-2010 10:47 AM Peg has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 384 of 392 (572023)
08-03-2010 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Peg
08-03-2010 1:12 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
quote:
Firstly, the laws for christians were not laid down in the same way as the mosaic law was. That law was written up as a list of binding laws...the christian laws were written down amongst the writings of the NT rather then in one long list.
One would think that in over 1500 years, someone would take the time to make a list of "laws" so that everyone is on the same page.
quote:
The laws of the Christ are expressed in both direct commands, and in principles. If a christian was to deliberately disregard either of these, then they would be judged adversely for their attitude toward such things.
At least you've adjusted your view to include the idea that what we have in the NT are principles and not all legal laws.
As I pointed out in Message 12. Law or laws of Christ is not referring to laws of a legal system. The Mosaic laws were part of the legal system. Enforceable in real time.
Jesus taught principles that would help people abide by the Jewish legal system and not get caught up in the abuse of the system. Spirit of the legal system and not always the letter of the legal system.
quote:
Acts 15:28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication"
Message 15
This was to Non-Jews and were part of the Mosaic Laws. Unless Christians are eating Kosher food, there is blood in the meat and who knows when it comes to strangled. No sacrifices today, so not much chance there. As for porneia, Leviticus gives us the list of illegal sexual activities. So Christians are still bound by those Jewish laws?
quote:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom"
That's Paul talking to Greeks. This isn't Jesus talking. The discourse by Jesus about the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46) makes it clear that those who help those in need will be on his right. The actions above do not preclude a person from helping those in need. It was part of the Jewish law to help those in need. Where does Jesus support what Paul is saying?
quote:
John 13:34 "I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.
Message 6
Christian view of agape: In the New Testament, agapē is charitable, selfless, altruistic, and unconditional. It is parental love, seen as creating goodness in the world; it is the way God is seen to love humanity, and it is seen as the kind of love that Christians aspire to have for one another. The Christian version is amongst Christians, not necessarily all mankind.
Again, the Jewish legal system addressed helping others and treating others fairly. Jesus gave them an example of following Jewish law.
quote:
James 1:27 "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world"
James 4:4 "Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God"
This also is not Jesus talking. The first one addresses worship, not a legal system.
Why didn't you include James 2:1?
My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord, Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism.
Not showing favoritism is also in the Jewish law.
In James 4, the writer isn't presenting a legal law. Basically he's telling his audience not to get caught up in material things. That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to have material things. When we get caught up in the "rat race" we tend to quibble over unimportant issues and don't pay as much attention or don't see those in need around us. (Like churches that split because some want the podium in the center and others want it off to the side.)
The author was dealing with the issues of his time. Setting higher standards of behavior so that one can follow the Jewish laws and the reigning legal system, doesn't make those standards a law.
Getting angry is not illegal and is not forbidden by God.
Getting drunk is not illegal and is not forbidden by God.
But if one commits an illegal act out of anger or while drunk, then they suffer the consequences. So it is better to manage our anger and consumption of alcohol to avoid breaking a law.
quote:
1John 2:15 "Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the worldthe desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of lifedoes not originate with the Father, but originates with the world"
Same point as James 4. The writer wrote this information so that his audience would not sin. He wasn't presenting legal laws, but principles that will help them stick to the legal laws given by God. The author feels that sin is lawlessness. Transgression of the legal system.
quote:
Matt 7:21 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will"
This is part of the discourse telling people to watch out for false prophets. It isn't a law, just a statement.
quote:
Matt 26:52 Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."
Matt 7:1 Stop judging that you may not be judged"
Again, not laws.
quote:
These words show that the things which Jesus and his disciples taught and recorded in the NT are the things by which Christians and all mankind will be judged. Jesus teachings/principles are the 'laws of the Christ' and they constitute the standards by which God will judge us.
So these aren't actual laws, other than those that have actually been put in our legal system.
As I said in Message 58:Show me that there are Christian laws, not just principles and standards of living. I agree there are principles and standards of living.
A law can be a principle or standard, but all principles and standards are not laws.
Christians interchange these ideas so much that they have lost meaning. I want the weight put back in the word law and stop throwing it around lightly.
What you've shown me is that we are to obey the legal laws of our respective governments and apply the higher standards taught by Jesus to choose right behavior.
God judging us by these standards, does not make them laws. How do we know those not spoken by Jesus are actually God's standards?
So there is a difference between laws of a legal system and standards of behavior for day to day living or final judgment.
Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Peg, posted 08-03-2010 1:12 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Peg, posted 08-04-2010 12:11 AM purpledawn has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 385 of 392 (572131)
08-04-2010 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by purpledawn
08-03-2010 10:47 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
in your previous post you said
"She can't even tell me clearly what standards all Christians will be held accountable to on judgment day."
then you say "God judging us by these standards, does not make them laws. How do we know those not spoken by Jesus are actually God's standards?"
which seems to mean that the standards of the NT are not laws.
Yet, if Jesus said that christians would be 'judged' by how they apply his words & teachings, it implies that they are infact laws because all judgments are based on laws.
I really dont care how you or anybody else defines a law, im interested in what God views as law and legally binding. If he is going to judge us on the basis of Jesus teachings then it stands to reason that according to him they are laws.
Hence, the words of Jesus and his apostles are 'laws' that we will be held accountable to.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by purpledawn, posted 08-03-2010 10:47 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by jar, posted 08-04-2010 8:24 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 387 by purpledawn, posted 08-04-2010 8:44 AM Peg has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 386 of 392 (572155)
08-04-2010 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Peg
08-04-2010 12:11 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
Peg writes:
Yet, if Jesus said that christians would be 'judged' by how they apply his words & teachings, it implies that they are infact laws because all judgments are based on laws.
Sorry but not all judgment is based on laws. For example, this reply is a judgment of the section of your post that I quoted. There is no law that says you cannot say such silly things but yet, I still judge it silly to claim that all judgment is based on law.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Peg, posted 08-04-2010 12:11 AM Peg has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 387 of 392 (572157)
08-04-2010 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Peg
08-04-2010 12:11 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
quote:
then you say "God judging us by these standards, does not make them laws. How do we know those not spoken by Jesus are actually God's standards?"
which seems to mean that the standards of the NT are not laws.
I'm asking what makes those standards not presented by Jesus to be laws? Jesus made no changes to Jewish law. He did not have the authority to tell a Jew not to follow the Jewish laws. He also said that no one should tell anyone not to follow the Jewish laws.
Even in Judaism there is a authoritative trail of reasoning behind new laws and how they relate to the Mosaic Laws. These are done by those who have the authority to make and change laws.
Today, a clergy can make a sermon and say that Christian women are not allowed to wear jeans or trousers. (Women should not wear mens clothing.) Does this now become a law that women will be judged by judgment day?
Preachers that say people much attend church. Is this now a law?
Paul is not Jesus. Why would anything in his letters be considered law?
Why would standards written in letters with unknown authors be considered law?
The book of Matthew may be written as a satire. Why would anything in it be considered a law?
The authors of all four gospels are unknown. Why would standards in them be considered laws?
At least the Mosaic laws were considered to be written by someone who did have the authority to make laws, whether one believes it was Moses or the Priestly writer. The written law was on the books and people suffered real time consequences for not abiding by those laws.
A teacher can give you commands, but that doesn't make them laws.
quote:
I really dont care how you or anybody else defines a law, im interested in what God views as law and legally binding. If he is going to judge us on the basis of Jesus teachings then it stands to reason that according to him they are laws.
Hence, the words of Jesus and his apostles are 'laws' that we will be held accountable to.
Well we've reached the "I don't care about real definitions, I'll stick with my own" response. If everyone goes by their own definition, then there is no consistency.
Don't forget what got us into this discussion. (Message 6)
Peg writes:
Message 344 Anyone who wants to benefit from that salvation MUST put their faith in Jesus Christ and must follow him. This goes for Gentiles too...they must submit to Christian law and the teaching of Christs Apostles. Gods laws and mans are quite different and just because a gentile follows the laws of their land does not mean that they have a righteous standing with God. They must follow Gods laws in order to obtain that. Remember that it is 'Faith' in God that counts a person as righteous, not works of any law.
To show faith in God, one must adopt HIS laws....or better put, live as he directs.
You clearly make the Christian Laws different than the teachings of the apostles.
Other than Paul, who didn't know the living Jesus, there are no writings by the original 12 apostles in the NT. The authors are unknown.
The NT consists of stories, letters and sermons. These are over 1500 years old and in an ancient language. We can tell by all the sects of Christianity that interpretations are not consistent across the board.
Laws that carry dire consequences should be clearly stated. The NT doesn't give us this. Hence all the accuracy issues, authorship issues, doctrine issues, etc. Jesus was bringing people into line with the spirit of the Jewish laws.
Once Christianity separated from Judaism, they no longer fell under that legal system. Once Christianity was embraced by the Roman Empire, they fell under the Roman legal system.
Your premise is contradictory:
Peg writes:
Remember that it is 'Faith' in God that counts a person as righteous, not works of any law.
To show faith in God, one must adopt HIS laws....or better put, live as he directs.
There's a difference between a law and living as someone directs. They aren't necessarily one and the same.
The Mosaic Laws are supposedly God's laws.
Jesus made it clear when he echoed the sentiments of Rabbi Hillel. Love your neighbor as yourself; IOW, if you don't want it done to you, don't do it to others. That's the spirit of the Jewish Law and the teachings of Jesus. Jesus didn't give us new laws.
There are no Christian laws.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Peg, posted 08-04-2010 12:11 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Peg, posted 08-05-2010 1:01 AM purpledawn has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 388 of 392 (572259)
08-05-2010 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by purpledawn
08-04-2010 8:44 AM


Re: What Are the Christian Laws?
purpledawn writes:
I'm asking what makes those standards not presented by Jesus to be laws? Jesus made no changes to Jewish law. He did not have the authority to tell a Jew not to follow the Jewish laws.
He did make some changes to the jewish laws. The law of the Christ was a new commandment based on love...not the mosaic law.
If you look closely at Jesus teachings it becomes apparent that it is the principles behind the laws which Jesus was teaching...not the laws themselves. Nor did he approve of the oral laws which were being taught by the religious leaders for he contradicted them many times.
One example is that he made divorce the sin adultery whereas the mosaic law did not.
Another is in his words about making oaths - Again you heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not swear without performing’ . . . However, I say to you: Do not swear at all.
Another example is You heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ However, I say to you: Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.
Again here is another example of Jesus contradiction of the oral laws of the religious leaders: You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you.
And his words about adultery were different too: You heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Murder was spoken of as: You heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice.
He took the law one step further. He wasnt necessarily changing it but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it. Continued ill will became as serious as murder. Merely thinking lustful thoughts became as adultery. Divorcing without legal reason became tantamount to adultery. A higher law of truth shows repetitious oaths to be unnecessary. A higher law of mildness sets aside retaliation.
He replaced the laws with a higher law based on the principles of the mosaic laws....and he outright contradicted the religious leaders and their oral laws.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by purpledawn, posted 08-04-2010 8:44 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by purpledawn, posted 08-05-2010 11:48 AM Peg has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 389 of 392 (572364)
08-05-2010 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Peg
08-05-2010 1:01 AM


No Christian Laws
quote:
He took the law one step further. He wasnt necessarily changing it but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it. Continued ill will became as serious as murder. Merely thinking lustful thoughts became as adultery. Divorcing without legal reason became tantamount to adultery. A higher law of truth shows repetitious oaths to be unnecessary. A higher law of mildness sets aside retaliation.
He replaced the laws with a higher law based on the principles of the mosaic laws....and he outright contradicted the religious leaders and their oral laws.
You were doing good until you said he replaced the laws with a higher law. He didn't replace the legal system. I agree he was trying to teach people to strive for a higher standard and the spirit behind the legal system.
He didn't change the legal system or teach that people should not follow the legal system.
It would be a falsehood to claim something is what it isn't.
Christians today do not have their own legal system. Aside from the actually laws that were mentioned in the NT, the teachings of Jesus were not presented as laws in a legal system. Don't throw the word "law" around so easily.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Peg, posted 08-05-2010 1:01 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Peg, posted 08-05-2010 6:08 PM purpledawn has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 390 of 392 (572428)
08-05-2010 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by purpledawn
08-05-2010 11:48 AM


Re: No Christian Laws
ok purpledawn, you can believe whatever you like about what you consider to be law or not
Its easy to do when you ignore the fact that Jesus quoted from the mosaic laws when teaching the people about those laws and how they 'should' be applied.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by purpledawn, posted 08-05-2010 11:48 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by purpledawn, posted 08-06-2010 8:28 AM Peg has not replied

  
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