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Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(1)
Message 331 of 424 (767889)
09-03-2015 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by Faith
08-28-2015 6:39 PM


Satan was originally created a beautiful angel. He decided to challenge God and became evil. He plotted to destroy the human race.
And that came as a total shock to an omniscient being? Just like A&E eating from the forbidden tree. Some omniscience...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Faith, posted 08-28-2015 6:39 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 332 of 424 (767890)
09-03-2015 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by saab93f
09-03-2015 3:30 AM


Hat tip to Old Harry's Game
From a scene in Old Harry's Game (radio series here in the UK, by the brilliant Andy Hamilton), where God is reminiscing wistfully with Satan: "My omniscience isn't quite so omni as it used to be..."

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 333 of 424 (767895)
09-03-2015 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Taq
08-31-2015 4:03 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Where did God command that Christians not issue gay marriage licenses as required by law or not bake cakes for gay people?
He didn't, the Bible actually says that these people should be issuing marriage licenses to gays.
We've all heard "render unto Caesar", but Peter spoke about it too:
From 1 Peter 2:
quote:
Living Godly Lives in a Pagan Society
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 334 of 424 (767896)
09-03-2015 9:42 AM


Hmmmm
Muslim Civil Liberties Group Claims Airline Violated Flight Attendant’s Constitutional Rights – CBS Detroit
FARMINGTON HILLS (WWJ) — A Muslim flight attendant has filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEO) claiming she was suspended from her job for not serving alcohol which is against her religious beliefs.
Lena Masri, an attorney for the Council of American Islamic Relations Michigan (CAIR), says Charee Stanley followed management’s directions, working out an arrangement with her coworkers to accommodate passenger requests for alcohol.
However, Masri said, ExpressJet Airlines put Stanley on administrative leave after another attendant filed an Islamophobic complaint that referenced Stanley’s head scarf.
We notified ExpressJet Airlines of its obligation under the law to reasonably accommodate Ms. Stanley’s religious beliefs, Masri said at a news conference in Farmington Hills on Tuesday. Instead, ExpressJet close to violate Ms. Stanely’s constitutional rights, placed her on administrative leave for 12 months after which her employment may be administratively terminated.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 335 of 424 (767921)
09-03-2015 1:45 PM


Kim Davis is in Federal custody.

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 336 of 424 (767925)
09-03-2015 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by JonF
09-03-2015 1:45 PM


Great day for judges.
She thanked the judge and well she should--she'll be Palin-esquely wealthy soon. Good for her.
Before her election she confided that while there was gay marriage elsewhere, she "couldn't do it if it came here". She wasn't, as it turns out, caught unawares by this--she ran to get in the way.
She'll get money and cheers, but she'll look like George Wallace in the rear-view mirror. The ride won't be pretty and likely won't end well.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Replies to this message:
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kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 337 of 424 (767927)
09-03-2015 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by New Cat's Eye
09-03-2015 8:35 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
quote:
He didn't, the Bible actually says that these people should be issuing marriage licenses to gays.
We've all heard "render unto Caesar", but Peter spoke about it too:
From 1 Peter 2:
I tend to agree with you on this. However, this case is somewhat more complex than it appears. There is apparently a constitutional conflict in Kentucky. The state constitution apparently defines marriages as between male and female, and the state constitution also claims to take precedence over federal law.
So the state "Caesar" and the federal "Caesar" are in conflict here. She can't obey both. Which "Caesar" should she obey?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 338 of 424 (767931)
09-03-2015 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by Omnivorous
09-02-2015 2:48 PM


Re: Why no licenses for straights?
Note that six assistant clerks must also appear at the contempt hearing tomorrow. I wonder if the judge will take them one by one, asking if they will obey the law or pay the fine.
That is exactly what happened. Five out of six clerks agreed to obey the law. A sixth assistant clerk, Ms. Davis son, said he would not issue licenses.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 339 of 424 (767932)
09-03-2015 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by kbertsche
09-03-2015 3:36 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
kbertshe writes:
I tend to agree with you on this. However, this case is somewhat more complex than it appears. There is apparently a constitutional conflict in Kentucky. The state constitution apparently defines marriages as between male and female, and the state constitution also claims to take precedence over federal law.
There is no complexity; there is only one Caesar. The SCOTUS already ruled on the states' claims.
States cannot nullify federal laws. They can challenge them, but once constitutional/jurisdictional questions are resolved, fed beats state like rock breaks scissors.
Conservatives have nullification dreams, though, that are hard to kill.
Also, this just in: The Confederacy lost the war.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by kbertsche, posted 09-03-2015 3:36 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 340 of 424 (767936)
09-03-2015 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by kbertsche
09-03-2015 3:36 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
I tend to agree with you on this.
Tend to?
Consider the audience. Peter was addressing Christians who were living in societies that were saying they were doing something wrong.
Peter's advice was to obey the laws. Here's some of the KJV:
quote:
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
The Bible explicitly says that you shouldn't disobey laws to show your faith.
Think about it: isn't this person making a mockery of Christianity? Isn't that a bad thing?
Isn't it better to just go along with the laws and just be a good person and respect everybody and show that Christians are good people?
There's no good to be had in "fighting the law". Just comply and be nice to people. This is acceptable with God.
I mean, at the least you wouldn't be showing everyone that Christians are assholes.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 341 of 424 (767937)
09-03-2015 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by Omnivorous
09-03-2015 2:30 PM


Before her election she confided that while there was gay marriage elsewhere, she "couldn't do it if it came here". She wasn't, as it turns out, caught unawares by this--she ran to get in the way.
Is it true that she was also divorced three times? 'Cause that would be hilariously hypocritical.
If she did actually set this up to happen, then she does deserve to be punished. That's for sure contempt.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 342 of 424 (767940)
09-03-2015 7:24 PM


Just because she knew in advance that she couldn't go along with the law before it happened does not mean she did anything to "set this up" in advance. That's pernicious nonsense.
Also, you can't cancel out one part of scripture by another. Obviously we are to obey all laws that do not violate God's law, but this law does directly violate God's law and leaves us no choice but to refuse to obey it.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 344 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:50 PM Faith has replied
 Message 350 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2015 8:34 PM Faith has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 343 of 424 (767942)
09-03-2015 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Faith
09-03-2015 7:24 PM


God has a law about issuing licenses? Chapter and verse, please.
The clerk didn't marry another woman, and I don't think you can even find one of "God's laws" against that anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 7:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 344 of 424 (767943)
09-03-2015 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Faith
09-03-2015 7:24 PM


Just because she knew in advance that she couldn't go along with the law before it happened does not mean she did anything to "set this up" in advance.
Of course it doesn't, I didn't imply that it was conclusive.
It was a conditional statement: If she did, then it is contempt.
Also, you can't cancel out one part of scripture by another. Obviously we are to obey all laws that do not violate God's law, but this law does directly violate God's law and leaves us no choice but to refuse to obey it.
Not according to Peter, what are you going to do with the contradiction?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 7:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 7:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 345 of 424 (767944)
09-03-2015 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by New Cat's Eye
09-03-2015 7:50 PM


I didn't address my post to you.
As I already said you can't use one scripture against another and Peter would agree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:50 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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