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Author Topic:   Is God good?
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 481 of 722 (684064)
12-15-2012 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by Drosophilla
12-13-2012 8:04 AM


Re: Viewpoints
I didn't say Faith was a psychopath - but that some views that people like her hold can be viewed like that - in particular for me, the nonchalance with which acts like the Flud can be written off with an airy "It's God's will".
But isn't it crazy for educated people to ignore the evidence in Genesis that the "Flood" was a metaphor for a real event that ZDID happen when Neanderthals we all strangely eliminated by some Act-of-God just 40,000 years of "days and nights" ago?
Call it a coincidence if you will, but the two reports correspond to one another, given the clear necessity for the Bible writers to camouflage the specifics and present the facts in a way acceptable to all those ancient generations of people ignorant of the rather amazing truth we now understand.
I call the atheists sick mentally for this reason while the crazy Bible people would rather stone wall Evolution and insist the church teach lies when the facts in Genesis are amazing confirmation of a divine revelation.
Both sides are mental, the psychopathic atheist are trying to hurt others in the Religious community, while the Bible believers are neurotics hurting their own case for Genesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Drosophilla, posted 12-13-2012 8:04 AM Drosophilla has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by herebedragons, posted 12-15-2012 1:42 PM kofh2u has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 482 of 722 (684081)
12-15-2012 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by kofh2u
12-15-2012 10:46 AM


Re: Viewpoints
So basically, the entire world is crazy except for you. You are the only one in the world who is sane enough to figure this mystery out.
Wow.

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by kofh2u, posted 12-15-2012 10:46 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by kofh2u, posted 12-15-2012 5:18 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 483 of 722 (684082)
12-15-2012 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 471 by Dr Adequate
12-14-2012 11:43 PM


Re: But that is NOT Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution
Your statement that "Darwin's ideas about favored races played a major part in Hitler's rational for wanting to do his "Final Solution"" was in fact ludicrously wrong.
"Favored races" as I used was not restricted to human beings. The bulk of Darwin's attention may have been to animals. However, look at the title of his book in the original and stop dancing.
No apologies. No retraction. And certainly no agreement with your spin that I am bearing false witness.
How much "witness" has to be borne to see Hitler's comment about survival of favored races was related to Darwin's evolutionary ideas ?
quote:
if nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such cases ALL HER EFFORTS, THROUGHOUT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS, TO ESTABLISH AN EVOLUTIONARY HIGHER STAGE OF BEING, MAY THUS BE RENDERED FUTILE." ( - Adolf Hitler, My Emphasis )
Racism and then genocide was the logical outworking of Darwinian evolution in Hitler's view.
Darwin's theory of evolution enfluenced Hitler's thinking about the superiority of the Aryian race. Don't try to morph my comment to say Darwin was a Nazi. That is not what I said. What I wrote I stand by. And I said that I think Hitler's sense of duty was more to Darwin's Evolutionary Theory.
"From Darwin to Hitler - a Lecture" Dr. Richard Weikart (History Professor)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_5EwYpLD6A
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-14-2012 11:43 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 485 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2012 8:01 PM jaywill has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 484 of 722 (684097)
12-15-2012 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by herebedragons
12-15-2012 1:42 PM


Re: Viewpoints
So basically, the entire world is crazy except for you. You are the only one in the world who is sane enough to figure this mystery out.
I just had that same thought.
Seems so.
Unless some lurking sane reader speaks up here, and now.
That rationale would apply to many many scientists, such as Ohms, Wegener, and every Mathematician who was the first to see a new theorem was valid.
But what I see is Hegel's Dialectic at work with the Theist of Religion pitted against the Anti-theist of Evolution.
On one side we have those Atheists laughing with ridicule at the present church interpretation of Genesis, which attacks more the Bible and the Institution of Religion than Genesis.
On the other side is the Church today, which is, insanely, trying to get the next generation to reject Science in spite of all the technology that has already seduced them, and the gigantic Institution of Education which has gathered them all into a massive college congregation.
I am part of the Synthesis to emerge from this Dialectic Force, one of the growing number of believers in Theistic Evolution.
The insanity seems to rest with people so comfortable among their present majority on either side, now, that they believe Truth is a function of Democratic Majority,....
Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture) ... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism does not reoccur concerning magical Creationism, impossible literal world-wide floods, genealogies of individuals who lived inordinately long personal life times, Sun and Moon and Stars absent from the Heavens while light shines through the Cosmos, etc) ...of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you as happened before The Reformation); ...and anoint thine eyes...(awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (of reality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).
The real WOW is that actually, crazy people do not believe the truth so essily, hang onto erroneous beliefs, kill all the prophets, ridicule most scientists and aryists too fqr ahead of the curve, and neverlive long enough to to aplogize when they are shown to have been fools.
TRhat is the historical facts, isn't it?
Galileo brought down the whole Catholic Chuch but long after he died.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by herebedragons, posted 12-15-2012 1:42 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 485 of 722 (684121)
12-15-2012 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by jaywill
12-15-2012 1:56 PM


Re: But that is NOT Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution
"Favored races" as I used was not restricted to human beings. The bulk of Darwin's attention may have been to animals. However, look at the title of his book in the original and stop dancing.
I know the title. I also know the content. Darwin does not mention human races anywhere in the whole course of the book. The word "races" in the title refers to subspecies of plants and animals, as you have already been informed. Pointing this out is not "dancing", it is stating the cold hard fact that you are ignoring because doing so allows you to talk fatuous and disingenuous nonsense.
How much "witness" has to be borne to see Hitler's comment about survival of favored races was related to Darwin's evolutionary ideas ?
The quotation from Hitler proves that he was a pig-ignorant bastard who knew as much about biology as an umbrella stand or a creationist.
Racism and then genocide was the logical outworking of Darwinian evolution in Hitler's view.
Funny, I can't find a single reference to Darwin in Mein Kampf. Plenty of references to God, though ... such as this:
Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise.
Hey, do you know the difference between the Origin of Species and the Book of Genesis? Here's a hint, only one of them involves man having a Creator, man being made in the image of God, and an expulsion from Paradise.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by jaywill, posted 12-15-2012 1:56 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by jaywill, posted 12-16-2012 8:31 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 490 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 2:48 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 501 by jaywill, posted 12-17-2012 10:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 486 of 722 (684172)
12-16-2012 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 485 by Dr Adequate
12-15-2012 8:01 PM


Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Hey, do you know the difference between the Origin of Species and the Book of Genesis? Here's a hint, only one of them involves man having a Creator, man being made in the image of God, and an expulsion from Paradise.
Nothing you said negates that Darwin's theory enfluenced Hitler's thinking.
And I know about Darwin's theology backround and references to God. That's besides the point. My point was Darwin's theory also inspired and enfluenced Adolf Hitler, the Nazis, and the Eugenics of the Nazis and other thinkers as well. And as much as you spin it the history stands. Strong name calling only makes you look like an angry fool who can't take the obvious truth.
"From Darwin to Hitler - a Lecture" Dr. Richard Weikart (History Professor)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_5EwYpLD6A
(Not all of Darwin's thoughts about Evolution theory are recorded in Origin. He penned his ideas elsewhere as in letters, and other books as Weikart explains)
Ie The Descent of Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUJpRSIUs1s
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2012 8:01 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 487 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-16-2012 9:12 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 488 by Panda, posted 12-16-2012 9:43 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 489 by jar, posted 12-16-2012 10:25 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 487 of 722 (684177)
12-16-2012 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by jaywill
12-16-2012 8:31 AM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Nothing you said negates that Darwin's theory enfluenced Hitler's thinking.
No, but the fact that it didn't kinda does.
I can't find a single reference to Darwin anywhere in Mein Kampf. You, presumably, cannot find a single reference to Darwin anywhere in Hitler's writing or speeches, or you would have said so.
And I know about Darwin's theology backround and references to God. That's besides the point.
Then I don't see why you mention it. I certainly didn't.
That's besides the point. My point was Darwin's theory also inspired and enfluenced Adolf Hitler, the Nazis ...
And yet you can produce no evidence for this; and have in fact produced evidence against it.
Strong name calling only makes you look like an angry fool who can't take the obvious truth.
I don't think that "pig-ignorant bastard" is the worst thing that Hitler has been called; nor do I think that deprecating Hitler's intellect invalidates my argument or anyone else's. But we are obviously two very different people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by jaywill, posted 12-16-2012 8:31 AM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 491 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 5:38 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 488 of 722 (684179)
12-16-2012 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by jaywill
12-16-2012 8:31 AM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
jaywill writes:
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:33 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:34 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:37 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:38 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:42 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:43 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:44 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:45 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:52 PM: No reason given.
There is a 'Preview' button for a reason.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by jaywill, posted 12-16-2012 8:31 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 489 of 722 (684184)
12-16-2012 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by jaywill
12-16-2012 8:31 AM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
If Darwin's theory inspired Hitler were true, (and you have offered no evidence that it was true), it is still irrelevant to the topic and if the stories you claim were true really were true then the God you try to market is a far greater villain and far more evil than Hitler anyway.
As I pointed out in Message 478:
quote:
If you believe the stories of the Biblical Flood, of Joshuah, of the Exodus are actually true (and there is overwhelming evidence they are not factual) then those Gods are far more vile and evil than Hitler.
In the case of the flood myths there is the absurd claim that all people other than one family were wicked and so deserved to be killed. But wait, there's more. (I can just hear the infomercial) ... all the animals and plants except the select few were also deemed wicked and so killed off.
In the case of Joshuah it is even worse. The God character announces that certain lands belong to HER people and so sets about doing ethic cleansing on a grand scale.
But the most evil God in those stories has to be the one found in the Exodus myth. That God intentionally hardens Pharaoh's heart repeatedly just so IT can show off.
The reason Protestant Christians such as myself continue to speak out on this subject is laid out above, the God you are trying to market is evil and unworthy of even my respect, much less any worship.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by jaywill, posted 12-16-2012 8:31 AM jaywill has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 490 of 722 (684209)
12-16-2012 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 485 by Dr Adequate
12-15-2012 8:01 PM


Re: But that is NOT Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution
I know the title. I also know the content. Darwin does not mention human races anywhere in the whole course of the book. The word "races" in the title refers to subspecies of plants and animals, as you have already been informed. Pointing this out is not "dancing", it is stating the cold hard fact that you are ignoring because doing so allows you to talk fatuous and disingenuous nonsense.
Of course.
The whole of the Holocaust was Sociological in its roots.
That allowed the Bible writers to predict that it would happen:
Rev. 11:7 And when they, (the House of Jacob and the house of Judah, the two witnesses), shall have finished their testimony (against their own suffering messiah), the (seven headed) beast (of Western civilization) that (had) ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (in The Renaissance) shall make (secular) war against them, (these Jews of the diaspora), and shall overcome them (in 1942), and kill them (with gas and starvation and brutalities).
Rev. 11:8 And, (the House of Jacob and the house of Judah), their dead bodies shall lie in the street (of Nazi Paganism) of the great city (which is the tenth horn of Western Civilization), which spiritually (in its philosophical outlook) is called Sodom, (i.e.; a place practicing pagan sexual license and libidinal excess) and (that ancient place of Jew trust in the shadow of) Egypt, (the time of their confusion: [Isa. 30:2-3]: Egypt, the land of both their beloved Joseph and also, their slavery), where, (in their blindness of scriptural truth) also our Lord was crucified (among them in 32 AD).
Rev. 11:9 And they of the (the gentile) people and kindreds and tongues (in the lands of the Jewish dispersion, from the time of the beginning of the construction of the abomination of the Dome of the Rock in 688AD until 1948, i.e., 1260 years) among them, (during the Diaspora), and nations (both) shall see their dead bodies (in Concentration Camps) three days (of years, i.e.; 1260) and an half, (1942-1945), and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves (but disposed of in the Crematoriums).
Rev. 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth, (in Nazi Western Europe), shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send (supposed Christian seasonal) gifts one to another; because these two prophets, (the holy people of the book), tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev. 11:11 And after (the Holocaust), three and an half days (of years), the Spirit of life from God entered into them, (the House of Jacob and the House of Judah), and they stood upon their feet (in the land Promised); and great fear fell upon them (in Islam) which saw them, (the prophecy of the Fig Tree, blooming, Hosea 9:10, was fulfilled: [Matt 24:32].
Rev. 11:12 And (the survivors), they (collectively) heard (the commands of Zionism), a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither (to the prophecy fulfilled, where all Nations can see the Jew returned to the Holy Land once again.).
And they ascended up to heaven (by complying with the voice, gathering themselves together in this Zionism) in a cloud (of peoples from Western Europe and all the world); and their enemies (especially in Palestinia) beheld them.
Rev. 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, (i.e.; Israeli Statehood), and the tenth part of the city, (that first small piece of the Promised Land), fell (to the returning Jews), and in the earthquake (of their in-gathering) were slain of (Muslim) men, seven thousand:
and the remnant
(Islamic armies) were affrighted, and (all the Judaeo-Christian world) gave glory to the God of heaven (that prophecy of Daniel, 12:11-12, had been fulfilled as Christ had acknowledged and opposed the Maccabean interpretations).
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2012 8:01 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 491 of 722 (684217)
12-16-2012 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 487 by Dr Adequate
12-16-2012 9:12 AM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Did darwin's theories not affect anyone in germany at the time ? If they did affect people, why would hitler be immune to its effect?
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-16-2012 9:12 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by Larni, posted 12-16-2012 6:05 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 493 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 6:22 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 495 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-16-2012 6:24 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 492 of 722 (684221)
12-16-2012 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by foreveryoung
12-16-2012 5:38 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
What do you mean by affect?
There is a million miles between saying "that sounds about right" to "because that sounds about right I shall rally the nation to invade Poland".

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 5:38 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 6:23 PM Larni has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 493 of 722 (684223)
12-16-2012 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by foreveryoung
12-16-2012 5:38 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Did darwin's theories not affect anyone in germany at the time ? If they did affect people, why would hitler be immune to its effect?
Indirectly, yes, Social Darwinism arose because of the impact of the philosophy of Nietzsche.
It was philosophy, not science, not Darwin, but the reasoning behind this philosophy which convinced men they were smart enough to "help" Evolution by a Direct Input, akin tour thoughts today in regard to micro chips inserted in the heads of people, or genetic manipulations.
But the real force behind what happened was a Sociological consequence.
No peoples have ever existed very long if they refused to assimilate into the mainstream group once they we displaced and had lost the own homeland.
This was the same Social Force which is still at work for the European Gypsies that no one care about today, and who are still being discriminated against right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 5:38 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 494 of 722 (684224)
12-16-2012 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by Larni
12-16-2012 6:05 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
I mean affect their whole philosophy of life to the point where they would start doing things they would not have done without the influence of darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by Larni, posted 12-16-2012 6:05 PM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 9:26 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 499 by PaulK, posted 12-17-2012 2:28 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 495 of 722 (684225)
12-16-2012 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by foreveryoung
12-16-2012 5:38 PM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
Did darwin's theories not affect anyone in germany at the time ? If they did affect people, why would hitler be immune to its effect?
Well, lots of people are "immune" to Darwinism. And it appears that Hitler was one of them because he kept on saying creationist things. Someone who tells you that man was made in the image of God and then expelled from Paradise doesn't sound all that Darwinian, does he? 'Cos of him getting his ideas about origins from the Book of Genesis.
As to why Hitler in particular was "immune", we can but speculate. Me, I think it's because he was an idiot. Though if I say that jaywill may tell me off for "strong name-calling" again, since apparently saying bad things about Hitler weakens my argument in some way he can't quite put his finger on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 5:38 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 496 by foreveryoung, posted 12-16-2012 7:31 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 498 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 9:41 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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