Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?

i have never said it was wrong to go to doctors. i am merely defending those parents' right to pray for healing and avoid doctors and hospitals.if you recall, the author of the Gospel of Luke was a doctor. God is not against them either, you just do not want to listen to all the facts and demand that everyoen has to do it your way or they are irresponsible or criminal or neglectful and that just isn't so. your ideas are influenced by your sinful natures and distort the reality.this is a complicated issue and you want easy answers and there are none.to practice their faith, many parents believe in faith healing, that is not wrong and your declaring it is does not make it so.though i have stopped taking scientific medicines and have gone natural.

now you are being absurd as faith healing is NOT on par with rape, abuse, or even murder. that is your own definitions and they are not accepted. get back to reality.your options are just as ridiculous. this is why i say you are out of your league and in over your heads in this issue. you do not have what it takes to govern, discuss, or suggest for this issue. you bias is noted and ignored as you cannot see clearly enough to discuss this issue and equate things that should not be equated. rape is wrong both spiritually, biblically, and governmentally, though the last one can change that status if they want to.faith healing is NOT wrong in any form and it is people like you who make life worse for everyone as you want to force your opinion on everyone else. i have seen it done too many times and it is sad to see because people like you ruin civilizations.Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

and the secular courts were wrong. emotionalism, not admissable. i would like to see you use the same attitude against doctors andnurses and hospitals when one child dies in their care. if not you are nothing but a hypocrite with hatred towards christians. they did not kill.by the way you cannot use the bible if you do not believe in it when it benefits you. you cannot accept it when it benefits you and then dismiss when it doesn't. that is just wrong and shows that you are not honest. use your own beliefs but don't fudge when you think you can gain an advantage.i do not address absurdities. rape is not the same as faith healing but atehists like yourself will distort things simply because you do not like other people doing things differently than you.i would bet that if this were 150 years ago, you all would be lining up to buy slaves.

They do not in fact have such a right. Hence the murder conviction.Moreover, in the Bible Christians are repeatedly enjoined to obey the laws of the civil authorities. See for example 1 Peter 2:13-8 and Romans 13:1-6. The very fact that the law says that they should have sought medical attention means that the Bible implicitly says so too.They have a perfect right to pray as well. Actually, this one is fairly clear-cut.

You have said it is insane. You have said doctors are quacks. So yes you have.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

These are exactly the same issue: do parents have the right, to do whatever they like, to their children?That is the question we are discussing and all three are subissues. Either you allow all in which case you are inhumane, or you allow none in which case you are just like everyone else (i.e. rational), or you have a double-standard, in which case you are inconsistent and we should ignore your ideas about the functioning of society. In fact, we may as well do that anyway. No, you are!! wow, I see why you love doing that emotional thing. It's far easier than actually thinking of a response.

He's preaching.He's not here to learn, or to engage in reasoned debate.He's here to spread the truth, Truth, TRUTH and the TRVTH that apparently only he knows.As Heinlein noted,

Belief gets in the way of learning.

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Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

It would seem hard to construct an argument against killing children which does not refer to the fact that the result is dead children.If all such arguments are "not admissible" then why shouldn't we kill children?But perhaps you think we should. If the child died because, on religious grounds, they refused to give the child medical treatment, then I should certainly support their prosecution for murder. I think you'll find I can.Specifically, I can use it to show up your inconsistency and hypocrisy. My own beliefs tell me that murder is bad. The trick is to get you to admit it. So, you're still ducking the question.I can condemn incestuous rape, why can't you? A hundred and fifty years ago people like you were telling everyone that God approved of slavery and that abolitionism was an atheist position. Fortunately we live in a more civilized time, in which using the Bible to justify inhumanity will make you an object of ridicule and disgust ... as you are discovering.

that was not the question i was discussing. where you fail with this line of reasoning is that you are equating faith healing with rape and that is just retarded. there is no reason to make such a connection except to impose your emotions on something you do not understand and cannot deal with.placing faith healing on the same level as rape is just a secular tactic because they hate Christ and do not want alternatives practiced. you do not get a say in this issue, and i disagree with the court's ill-informed decision.it is not murder, it is not irresponsible and it is not wrong. it is only wrong in the eyes of the atheist who hate all things christian (or religious) and that is not enough to try anyone. so the injustice was done by prosecuting the parents who lived by their religious beliefs.if you want to end your hypocritical argument then you must include in your group of three 'crimes' all children deaths' at the hand of medical science/care.but again, atheists have no grasp of this issue an dit is best for them to refrain from getting involved for they are wrong. i am not being inconsistant as faith healing is not wrong nor a crime. what is wrong is your trying to impose your beliefs on those who have chosen differently simply because you do not like some of the results.no matter what you say you are not going tobe right in this issue and appealing to secularism will not help you.

i learn from God. i do not learn from the secular world, they have no truth to teach. they and you all need to learn from the true christian.i have been engaging in reasonable debate it is just that you do not like to hear those things that expose you as wrong. heinlin was wrong as that would apply to the evolutionary scientist as well.tion gets in theway of his learning the truth.he said that because he di dnot like people learningthings that showed him to be in error. (and you quote a science fiction writer...ha ha ha)

You think you do --- a belief that you share with some of the grossest fools and wickedest monsters in history. I wouldn't have believed them, and I'm not tempted to believe you.But if you do learn from God, then next time the two of you chat could you ask him whether parents have the right to rape their children, or whether the government has a right to intervene? It's a question that you seem unable to answer on your own: a moral vacuum, as it were, in your worldview.

that is a laugh. you say this knowing that the human slave trade is going on, women are kidnapped for the sex industry, people are smuggling humans into america.i do not think you realize what you said. you are so intent at getting me that you just blew your credibility out of the water.in the book, 'the politically incorrect guide to the bible' there is a great chapter on slavery {ch. 10}, you should read it and get a better picture insteadof just quote mining to try and make me look silly. it is no more murder than a doctor giving medicine to a child and the child dies. your hypocrisy is showing as is your double standard. if one is wrong so is the other.what you do not like was that God did not heal that child but you do not know all the mitigating factors involved. this is an issue i can illustrate using the terms employees and employer.the employee does not like some of the decisions made by the employer so they attack the employer because they assume something.the employee does not realize all the factos that went into making that decision BECAUSE they are the employee and the employer DOES NOT have to consult or explain to the employee about anything to do with the business.do you get the picture yet? you do not have ALL the information, nor does the DA, you cannot assume it is murder because you do not know all that went on for you/ the DA are not someone who needs to be consulted.it is not your decision nor your responsibility. the parents did not kill, the disease did. the parent stook the appropriate action as they saw fit to do given their God given rights to raise their children. you all were NOT given rights to raise other people's children nor tell them how to parent their child (especially under threats).using faith healing is NOT a crime nor is it killing people. you all just do not understand it. you also do not grasp biblical teachings, and to say it is a human book when you do not want to believe it, but then use it when it benefits you just shows your double standard and inconsistancy, along withdishonesty, hypocrisy and so much more.you do not have an arguemnt in this issue. i will tell you this, if you were in threat of losing your children becaus eyou did whatyou believed andwere charged you would be begging and whining that you did nothing worng yet others disagreed and you were sent to prison.put yourself in those parents shoes before condemning them because you would not like your own arguments used against you.

You know, if you wrote blatant falsehoods less often people would be less liable to think of you as the sort of person who frequently writes blatant falsehoods. And being less thoroughly despicable, you would be less thoroughly despised. I think that you will find that it is not only atheists who have a sense of right and wrong. Many theists have one too. For example, it would seem an incredible coincidence if all the jurors who found the parents guilty of murder all just happened to be atheists, in a nation so God-ridden as the United States of America. No, just those resulting from deliberate neglect --- as of course we do. As has been made clear to you.Indeed, in my opinion doctors would be even more culpable in such a case, insofar as they have a clearer knowledge of the consequences of such neglect. And no-one said that it was, and it would be stupid and dishonest for you to pretend that they did.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

more taking out of context more misrepresentation, this is why a christian cannot have a discussion with secularists--they are NOT honest.

You won't find your God here and you've said yourself often enough that we would kick him out if it was, so maybe it's better for you to fuck off and let the rest of talk sensibly. Nobody here would say you have engaged in reasonable debate: you consistently ignore points asked of you despite repeated aksing, you never provide evidence, you reply to every criticism with personal attack and preaching, you refuse to follow the rules, you can't stay on topic, and you continue to posit your initial assertion without ever backing it up. You argue against your own position, FFS.The rest of your post is gibberish.