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Author Topic:   What's The Best Solution For Humanity?
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 16 of 301 (631246)
08-31-2011 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Minnemooseus
08-31-2011 4:33 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
quote:
Your saying "Destroy the planet and then abandon ship for Mars".
No. I'm saying that the population will increase no matter what we do - even if we use the china syndrome of limiting offspring to whoever wins lotto. And we cannot even do that with the other life forms. We are looking 2-300 years ahead; add a zero and we see what the right path is: we won't be able to turn our noses. Its the only way to save this planet - and humanity from becoming self centred zombies.
This says the worse the climate the better; the greater the population increase - even better. This and no other factor will propel humanity in the right direction: a dome city on the moon in 50 years; five bases on Mars.
GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY AND HAVE DOMINION OF ALL THE WORLDS.
Its not a choice factor and how freeky this situation was anticipated by Genesis!
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-31-2011 4:33 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by sfs, posted 08-31-2011 7:20 AM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 18 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2011 10:04 AM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 44 by Dogmafood, posted 09-23-2011 8:13 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
sfs
Member (Idle past 2533 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


(1)
Message 17 of 301 (631255)
08-31-2011 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by IamJoseph
08-31-2011 5:44 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
quote:
THE human race, to which so many of my readers belong, has been playing at children's games from the beginning, and will probably do it till the end, which is a nuisance for the few people who grow up. And one of the games to which it is most attached is called, "Keep to-morrow dark," and which is also named (by the rustics in Shropshire, I have no doubt) "Cheat the Prophet." The players listen very carefully and respectfully to all that the clever men have to say about what is to happen in the next generation. The players then wait until all the clever men are dead, and bury them nicely. They then go and do something else. That is all. For a race of simple tastes, however, it is great fun.
(From The Napoleon of Notting Hill, G.K. Chesterton)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by IamJoseph, posted 08-31-2011 5:44 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 18 of 301 (631275)
08-31-2011 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by IamJoseph
08-31-2011 5:44 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
No. I'm saying that the population will increase no matter what we do - even if we use the china syndrome of limiting offspring to whoever wins lotto
If population control is off the table, then humanity is doomed. We are never, ever getting out of this solar system, and there simply aren't all that many new places around the sun that can support human life in a self-sustaining way.
Once humanity fills up this planet, if there is no decrease in population growth, the remaining possibilities for humans will get filled in very short order. Mars and the moon are awful tiny. My guess is that humans won't get any further away from earth than Mars.
Further, humans don't seem to tolerate each other very well when it comes to sharing scarce resources. I don't believe any amount of education will change that. So if the population does keep growing, famine and war are also inevitable.
But I don't believe continually population growth is even possible. We are going to continue screw up our ecological system, encounter new diseases, and fight wars, use up rare materials on which civilization depends, so that if we don't control it ourselves, population will come down. If we are lucky, what's left of earth will be able to sustain intelligent life and we won't enter a 1000 year dark age.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by IamJoseph, posted 08-31-2011 5:44 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Aware Wolf, posted 08-31-2011 10:45 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 22 by IamJoseph, posted 08-31-2011 7:06 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Aware Wolf
Member (Idle past 1420 days)
Posts: 156
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 02-13-2009


Message 19 of 301 (631280)
08-31-2011 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by NoNukes
08-31-2011 10:04 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
We are never, ever getting out of this solar system, and there simply aren't all that many new places around the sun that can support human life in a self-sustaining way.
I agree with the first part of this statement, but what about building our own places to live; like giant space stations? We couldn't do that today, of course, but 300 years from now, who knows?
Further, humans don't seem to tolerate each other very well when it comes to sharing scarce resources.
Just a quibble, but from what I've been reading, we seem to do better at sharing when resources are scarce than when there is an over abundance. Admittedly, I'm talking about smaller groups of individuals. I'm not sure if that applies to whole nations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2011 10:04 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2011 11:11 AM Aware Wolf has not replied
 Message 23 by IamJoseph, posted 08-31-2011 7:10 PM Aware Wolf has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 301 (631286)
08-31-2011 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Aware Wolf
08-31-2011 10:45 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
I agree with the first part of this statement, but what about building our own places to live; like giant space stations? We couldn't do that today, of course, but 300 years from now, who knows?
From all indications, pretty soon humans are going to be incapable of even returning to the ISS, let alone building self sustaining space stations of any size.
I don't believe that giant space stations have even the slightest chance of helping us to sustain indefinite, be fruitful and multiply, population growth. That was fine advice for Adam and Abraham, but it is self-destructive behavior for us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Aware Wolf, posted 08-31-2011 10:45 AM Aware Wolf has not replied

  
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4422 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 21 of 301 (631289)
08-31-2011 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Minnemooseus
08-31-2011 4:33 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
Moose,
This idea that we can continue to destroy the planet because in the future we can just go elsewhere is pretty common.
It is most common coming from preople who have absolutely no idea how far away we are from having the technology to do this.
and dont call me Shirley.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-31-2011 4:33 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 22 of 301 (631359)
08-31-2011 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by NoNukes
08-31-2011 10:04 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
quote:
If population control is off the table, then humanity is doomed.
Humanity is doomed if we restrict population; only its reverse can save.
quote:
We are never, ever getting out of this solar system,
Famous last words. By your view, humanity is toast both ways: you cannot control the population - eventually it will catch up with you. Its not a choice factor.
The other thing which will save humanity is if the climate stinks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2011 10:04 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by NoNukes, posted 09-01-2011 5:09 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 23 of 301 (631360)
08-31-2011 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Aware Wolf
08-31-2011 10:45 AM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
Once upon a time, the Babylonion empire never knew there was another one called the Egyptian empire. One day, the out of Africa will be replaced by the out of earth story. All evolutionists will agree - survival of the fittest does not stop on earth: we have to prove this by going to other harsh environments and conquering it. Its not a choice factor. Genesis is correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Aware Wolf, posted 08-31-2011 10:45 AM Aware Wolf has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 24 of 301 (631362)
08-31-2011 7:13 PM


Ya know Joe, it's too bad Mabus got locked up. You two would have gotten along really well.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 25 of 301 (631393)
08-31-2011 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IamJoseph
08-30-2011 7:39 PM


I suggest making me Supreme President of the World.
OK, it's a short-term solution, but at least it would be a good start.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IamJoseph, posted 08-30-2011 7:39 PM IamJoseph has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Butterflytyrant, posted 09-02-2011 12:43 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 26 of 301 (631525)
09-01-2011 4:20 PM


The best solution for humanity, I would think would be to live within our means. Be responsible in our stewardship of the Earth.
But who am I kidding.

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 301 (631532)
09-01-2011 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by IamJoseph
08-31-2011 7:06 PM


Re: Shirley you're joking!!!
By your view, humanity is toast both ways:
No. That appears to be your view. I've merely indicated that expansion to new lands isn't a viable solution. You are the one that seems to think we have to keep multiplying without restraint.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by IamJoseph, posted 08-31-2011 7:06 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4422 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 28 of 301 (631614)
09-02-2011 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Adequate
08-31-2011 8:35 PM


I would vote for you
If there was a few tests involved before someone was allowed to go for this position, it might be a good idea.
we would need to have -
a complex reasoning test - you would pass
a sense of humour test - you would pass
a test of general intelligence test - you would pass
a test to see if the new ruler would be able to change policy when new or improved information comes in - you would pass
How many current world leaders would pass these tests?
What would some of your first world changes be?
(that last question was actually a serious question)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-31-2011 8:35 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 29 of 301 (634581)
09-22-2011 9:17 PM


What's the problem
Here is a question for any math heads.
I seem to recall from somewhere, that if humanity were to continue it’s exponential growth and we were able to colonize the universe, then we will have filled the whole shebang in something like 3,000 yrs. Assume 1 earth like planet for every 1000 (?) suns.
Is this true? I only ask because I figure if we can determine the mass of the universe then this should be a napkin calculation.
What is the greatest threat that humanity faces? Is it population or a virus or climate change or an asteroid or what?

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Coyote, posted 09-22-2011 9:43 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 30 of 301 (634583)
09-22-2011 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Dogmafood
09-22-2011 9:17 PM


Re: What's the problem
Good questions. Here is a non-math response.
Exponential growth would have us filling the universe in just a few thousand years. But the same growth rate would have bacteria taking over the entire earth in weeks or months and the universe not long after. Neither is going to happen because you just can't sustain that growth rate. Also, getting to the rest of the universe is somewhat of a problem at the moment. I don't see us colonizing adjacent stars any time soon.
The greatest threat I see at the moment is fundamentalism. We need to get off this rock and any resources spent fighting amongst ourselves are just wasted. All fundamentalism, but particularly Muslim fundamentalism, is diametrically opposed to scientific advance and the development of cultures that can expand into space.
Rationality is the best solution for humanity, but too often folks who are entirely rational in all other aspects of their lives fall prey to the most irrational forms of woo and defend that woo at all costs. I suggest that we need to get over that, and as soon as possible.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Dogmafood, posted 09-22-2011 9:17 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Dogmafood, posted 09-22-2011 10:09 PM Coyote has replied

  
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