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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 106 of 762 (863179)
09-21-2019 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Theodoric
09-21-2019 6:02 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
What were the procedures at Ellis Island? I don't think they had to let anyone in if they didn't meet certain basic requirements, without any other legal procedure than whatever the officials there determined.
You ought to be able to tell from the country of origin and the reason given for needing asylum whether it is legitimate or not without any kind of court procedure. Just put people in place to make such determinations based on the available information, a single person trained for the job or two or three if necessary. A brief hearing should be enough in most cases to determine if a person has a legitimate claim of any sort at all to be in the country. They can move up to other officials if there is any doubt, but even the lowest echelon of officials should be able to make basic decisions. We do not owe foreigners more than that, at least those who have come here without any kind of authorization, petition or application but just show up at the border.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Theodoric, posted 09-21-2019 6:02 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 107 of 762 (863180)
09-21-2019 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
09-21-2019 5:33 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
Faith writes:
What we need is less access for criminals, drug cartels, human traffickers, those who rape women on the trek north and the like, and a way to permanently deport those who have committed rapes and murders while inh the country illegally, who get deported only to return and repeat their crimes.
We have that. It is called our courts system.
Faith writes:
We need a LOT LESS access for those and welcome centers will not accomplish that. Walls could help, along with all the other methods of keeping people out that are suggested.
So you assert yet never provide any evidence. The evidence shows that immigrants, those that get on US soil by ANY means, are as honest, trustworthy and reasonable as ANY US Citizen. Further they are less likely to commit crimes once they are here than the general US citizenry.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 5:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 6:50 PM jar has not replied
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 7:02 PM jar has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 108 of 762 (863181)
09-21-2019 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
09-21-2019 6:46 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
I'm not into playing the percentages game. I know there have been hundreds, even thousands, of crimes, including rape and murder, committed by illegals against American citizens. Four murders were committed here in Northern Nevada by an illegal a year or so ago. There should not even be ONE such situation if we had a rational border policy.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 6:46 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 09-21-2019 8:32 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 109 of 762 (863182)
09-21-2019 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
09-21-2019 6:46 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
That is a stupid insane law that gives rights of citizens to anyone who just flings himself onto US soil. What extreme idiocy. No wonder the nation is coming unglued. THAT's a huge reason we need a wall, gigantic impenetrable walls all along the border. Thanks to the anti-American hateful Left.
And change those idiotic laws that force us to give citizenship rights where they have not been earned, and that includes the Anchor Baby idiocy.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 6:46 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by DrJones*, posted 09-21-2019 9:08 PM Faith has replied
 Message 119 by caffeine, posted 09-22-2019 5:49 AM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 110 of 762 (863183)
09-21-2019 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
09-21-2019 6:11 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
That is what a civilized country does. If you do not like then try to have the laws changed.
The Constitution applies to all people in the USA, citizen or not. We even apply due process to you racists.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 6:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 111 of 762 (863184)
09-21-2019 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
09-21-2019 6:11 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
We ought to be able to judge which foreigners deserve our consideration and which don't without a court procedure.
If not the courts, who would make this determination? Some random person? Do you realize how anti-american your comment is? If that is what you want you need to move to a nondemocratic country. Russia is a perfect place for you. Well other than the orthodox thing.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 6:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 09-22-2019 12:04 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 112 of 762 (863185)
09-21-2019 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
09-21-2019 6:50 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
Provide the evidence. Assertions don't mean shit. If you don't provide evidence I will assume you are lying. Again.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 6:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 11:58 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 113 of 762 (863186)
09-21-2019 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
09-21-2019 7:02 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
And change those idiotic laws that force us to give citizenship rights where they have not been earned
how did you earn your citizenship?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 7:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 11:57 PM DrJones* has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 114 of 762 (863189)
09-21-2019 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by DrJones*
09-21-2019 9:08 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
Oh word games. Such fun. I was of course talking about those who are not born citizens as I am. If you aren't a born citizen you have to earn it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by DrJones*, posted 09-21-2019 9:08 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by DrJones*, posted 09-22-2019 3:47 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 115 of 762 (863190)
09-21-2019 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Theodoric
09-21-2019 8:32 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
Of course you'll assume I'm lying, you don't know how to do anything civil.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 09-21-2019 8:32 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 116 of 762 (863191)
09-22-2019 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Theodoric
09-21-2019 8:30 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
You are the one who doesn't know what America is all about and I shouldn't even have to say it, you should know it, so what kind of brainwashing have you undergone that makes you not know it I wonder. I don't wonder a whole lot of course because I'm pretty well aware of what sort of brainwashing the Left has been executing since the sixties or so.
As I went on to say, do it the way Ellis Island did it or was their method unAmerican according to your anti-American Leftist revisionist dogma? I don't know how they did it, I'm merely assuming they had the training and the authority to decide whether immigrants stayed or not, no court case required. And the immigrants had the responsibility to be able to present their qualifications for entry. They were not ILLEGAL, they had to have some kind of legitimate reason to be here.
My own suggestion was to have people trained to make such determinations. Really I think just having a long counter with dozens of employees trained in the relevant material should take care of it, like the DMV or the Post Office or any bureaucracy. Go to the window, answer some questions, get photgraphed, get a document classifying your situation, get on the deport bus or sit down to wait for the next step in the process.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Theodoric, posted 09-21-2019 8:30 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 09-22-2019 10:00 AM Faith has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 117 of 762 (863192)
09-22-2019 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Faith
09-21-2019 11:57 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
If you aren't a born citizen you have to earn it
so you're not opposed to birthright citizenship then, how do you feel about chain migration?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 11:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 09-22-2019 4:11 AM DrJones* has not replied
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 09-22-2019 6:42 AM DrJones* has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 118 of 762 (863193)
09-22-2019 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by DrJones*
09-22-2019 3:47 AM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
I had to look the term up. It makes sense that people who know other people who have successfully migrated will likely follow. Its better for the immigrants to know each other and achieve assimilation together. I do feel, at the risk of sounding like a populist racist, that we (the people here already) need to control the rate of flow. If not, migration could exceed the capacity of our system to handle it and dire consequences might ensue, such as the average wage dropping due to people eager to work at less than what we here need to have. Thats my only beef.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by DrJones*, posted 09-22-2019 3:47 AM DrJones* has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(2)
Message 119 of 762 (863194)
09-22-2019 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
09-21-2019 7:02 PM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
Hi Faith
That is a stupid insane law that gives rights of citizens to anyone who just flings himself onto US soil.
No such thing happens. You seem to have the idea that the basic human rights outlined in the constitution are intended for citizens, but this is obviously not the case - they apply to humans, regardless of citizenship.
This is nothing unique to America. Every country with any pretension to being governed by the rule of law reserves certain rights to citizens - typically including the right to vote, for example. But basic rights like access to a fair trial, freedom of speech, freedom from arbitrary arrest - these are universal human rights. And laws clearly notate them as such. The US Consitution specifies which rights apply to citizens, and which to people generally.
If you came on holiday to Europe, do you think you would have no legally enforceable rights while you were here? Of course not - you would have all manner of legal rights here.
As I went on to say, do it the way Ellis Island did it or was their method unAmerican according to your anti-American Leftist revisionist dogma? I don't know how they did it, I'm merely assuming they had the training and the authority to decide whether immigrants stayed or not, no court case required.
I don't think you'd be too keen on the way they did it al Ellis Island. Laws today are much, much, much more restrictive.
Immigrants arriving to Ellis Island had a perfunctory health check to see if they were carrying infectious diseases like cholera; and were asked a few questions about where they came from and why they were coming to the US. About 300,000 people were turned away.
Now, you may think that sounds like a lot, but it represents about 2% of arrivals. By contrast, most claims for asylum today are rejected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 7:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 09-22-2019 6:37 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 120 of 762 (863195)
09-22-2019 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by caffeine
09-22-2019 5:49 AM


Re: the wall is simply stupid!
Please do not confuse tourists who have been traveling within a country and run into some legal trouble, with people who have not yet qualified even to BE in the country, which is the legal issue itself.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by caffeine, posted 09-22-2019 5:49 AM caffeine has not replied

  
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