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Author Topic:   A Genesis Day and the Age of the Earth: what does the Bible say?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 31 of 121 (479466)
08-27-2008 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Bambootiger
08-27-2008 6:29 AM


The REST of the Story
I wish I could say you have an hypothesis going but I'm afraid that is not the case.
I have other problems with your OP but chose this one because no one had yet touched it.
Bambootiger writes:
... the conclusion this leads to is that the seventh day is thousands of years long and thus the other days would be as long also.
You seem to think it significant that the Scripture does not specifically say, "Day Seven Ended."
Is it not enough that it says: God rested and was refreshed?
quote:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but he rested on the seventh day and was refreshed." Exodus 31:17 NLT
Notice the past tense. If what you propose were true then it should read: God is resting (present tense) and will be refreshed (future tense).
Their rest was in the promised land, but the land inself was not that rest.
That seems reasonable.
It is also reasonable for the NLT to give "rest" {menukah (H4496)} as "place of rest" in this circumstance; for it fits the context and is translated that way in other places by the KJV:
quote:
... the ark of the covenant of the LORD went before them ... to search out a resting place for them. Numbers 10:33
... my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places; Isa 32:17,18
Note the poetic parallelisms: "peacable habitation" - "sure dwellings" - "quiet resting places."
Bambootiger writes:
As for where that rest is read Matthew 5:5 where Jesus was quoting from Psalms 37. Thar is our promised land now.
quote:
... the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psa 37:11
First you say the "rest" was NOT about the land, then you suggest that it IS about the land: the entire "earth."
I am confused. You want this "rest" to be a chronological argument regarding the age of the earth. You also want it as a reward given to the faithful; a huge piece of real estate: an entire planet. On the other hand, you want the spiritual interpretation which Paul gives it: blessings enjoyed by those who "Become reconciled to God." The image this brings to my mind is: eons of unemployment benefits while hanging out with God until he decides to go back to work!
That's probably not what you wanted me to think. Yes?
Your campaign has been valiant and I would give you an 'A' for effort but so far I see no evidence nor logical progression which would lead me to your conclusion. Your premise regarding Ferris Bueller's God's Day Off does not appear to be supported by the textual materials which you have provided and I know of no other which might be put to the task. I find it odd that you think God is somehow on holiday and that you think the length of God's holiday can determine the length of the days of creation week. I also think it odd that you imagine "God's rest" in terms of real estate; how it was once in the land of Canaan but now encompasses "the earth." I also wonder what you think it means to have God "resting" from his work. Would that explain the presence of evil in the world?
Yes. This leg is definately broken.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Bambootiger, posted 08-27-2008 6:29 AM Bambootiger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Bambootiger, posted 08-28-2008 12:01 AM doctrbill has replied

  
Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 5691 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 32 of 121 (479507)
08-27-2008 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by AlphaOmegakid
08-27-2008 12:14 PM


Re: But context defines it meaning
You don't have to take my word for it. Just read chapter 4 in the Book of Hebrews to see how the Apostle Paul under inspiration quoted and apllied the verse in Psalms 95 as well as Genesis 2;3. If your Bible has crodd references you can look them up to see what scriptures he is quoting from or reffering to. You can argue with Paul if you want to. I am only pointing out what the Bible says. What it doesn't say is that the sventh day had an end. The other six days did. If you are just going to repeat yourself and ignore what the Bibles says there isn't much point in having me invest my time in replying to your message is there? If you won't listen even to an Apostle of Christ then surely I can't help you either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-27-2008 12:14 PM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by johnfolton, posted 08-28-2008 1:13 AM Bambootiger has not replied

  
Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 5691 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 33 of 121 (479514)
08-28-2008 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by doctrbill
08-27-2008 1:35 PM


Re: The REST of the Story
A more modern and accurate translation shows that Genesis 2:2,3 are not in the past tense. Look at the Hebrew:
(Genesis 2:2) 2And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made...
"And he proceeded to rest." Heb., wai·yish·both’. The verb is in the imperfect state denoting incomplete or continuous action, or action in progress.
(Genesis 2:3) 3And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making.
, "he does rest (desist)." Heb., sha·vath’, perfect state. It shows the characteristic of an individual, namely, God, on the seventh day of his creative week.
(BBE) Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God came to the end of all his work; and on the seventh day he took his rest from all the work which he had done.
(BBE) Genesis 2:3 And God gave his blessing to the seventh day and made it holy: because on that day he took his rest from all the work which he had made and done.
(GodsWord) Genesis 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished work he had been doing. On the seventh day he stopped the work he had been doing.
(GodsWord) Genesis 2:3 "Then God blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation."
(Young) Genesis 2:2 and God completeth by the seventh day His work which He hath made, and ceaseth by the seventh day from all His work which He hath made.
(Young) Genesis 2:3 And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.
(TEV) Genesis 2:3 He blessed the seventh day and set it apart as a special day, because by that day he had completed his creation and stopped working.
Let me just quote the relavent portion of Hebrews, but first consider that the rest here to which Christians could enter into was not the promised land, because that is where they already lived.:
(Hebrews 3:18-4:10) 18But to whom did he swear that they should not enter into his rest except to those who acted disobediently? 19So we see that they could not enter in because of lack of faith. 4 Therefore, since a promise is left of entering into his rest, let us fear that sometime someone of YOU may seem to have fallen short of it. 2For we have had the good news declared to us also, even as they also had; but the word which was heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who did hear. 3For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: "So I swore in my anger, ”They shall not enter into my rest,’" although his works were finished from the founding of the world. 4For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works," 5and again in this place: "They shall not enter into my rest." 6Since, therefore, it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience, 7he again marks off a certain day by saying after so long a time in David’s [psalm] "Today"; just as it has been said above: "Today if YOU people listen to his own voice, do not harden YOUR hearts." 8For if Joshua had led them into a place of rest, [God] would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9So there remains a sabbath resting for the people of God. 10For the man that has entered into [God’s] rest has also himself rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.
Some of the cross references:
Verse 18 (Numbers 14:30)
4:1 a
(Exodus 20:11) 11For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.
"And he proceeded to rest." Progressive action indicated by a Heb. verb in the imperfect state.
4:1b
Galations 5:4; Hebrews 3:12;12:15
4:2a
Matthew 4:23; Acts 15:7; Colossians 1:23 (the good news of God's Kingdom)
4:2b
(Exodus 19:5) 5And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me.
(It wasn't the place, but their relationship with God, and service to him)
Verse 3 quotes Psalms 95:11
Verse 4 quotes Genesis 2:2
Verse 5 quotes Psalm 85:11 again
Verse 7 quotes Psalms 95:7 and verse 8
verse 8a
(Joshua 22:4) 4And now Jehovah YOUR God has given YOUR brothers rest, just as he promised them. So now turn and go YOUR way to YOUR tents in the land of YOUR possession, which Moses the servant of Jehovah gave YOU on the other side of the Jordan.
8b
(Jeremiah 6:16) ...6This is what Jehovah has said: "Stand still in the ways, YOU people, and see, and ask for the roadways of long ago, where, now, the good way is; and walk in it, and find ease for YOUR souls." But they kept saying: "We are not going to walk."
The key to the goal that Paul was pointing is verse 2 where it refers to the "Good News" and Jesus said that this was concerning "God's Kingdom". This is the Kingdom he taught us to pray for in the model prayer ; the goverment which will accomplish God's original purpose for man and the earth This ties in with Matthew 5:5 and Psalms 37 from where Jesus quoted it. It is not the place, the earth, but what God will do for us there which is described in Revelation 20:12,13 and 22:1,2 We can enter into God's rest by obediance to him.
However, again, the point is that Paul quoted from Genesis and said that while God "proceeded to rest" that day od reat was still continuing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by doctrbill, posted 08-27-2008 1:35 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-28-2008 10:29 AM Bambootiger has not replied
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 34 of 121 (479519)
08-28-2008 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Bambootiger
08-27-2008 10:25 PM


Re: But context defines it meaning
What it doesn't say is that the sventh day had an end.
It says on the seventh day God rested from "ALL" his Works.
However after approximately 1000 years of the seventh day did not the flood come that the world that was then perished being overflowed with water? 2 peter 3:6 & 2 peter 3:8. It says he rested from all his Works on the seventh day however the World Flood happened shortly after the seventh day. Do the math the flood happened when Noah was 600 years old and the generations started with Seth when Adam was 130 years on the sixth day and the years to the flood by the geneologies were approximately 1656 years. akjv genesis 5.
I love the rest though cause in God is a special place of rest to them that believe. akjv psalm 91 Is not this why the Jews missed the visitation and why it pleases God by the foolishness of the preaching of the gospel to save them that believe?
Did not God give Noah 120 years to build the ark? approximately shortly after the seventh day? My take is there is a special place of rest that exists to believers. It says in Hebrew 4:4 he did rest from "ALL" his Works on the seventh day. akjv psalm 104:9 in respect to the flood happening shortly after the seventh day because God destroyed the old earth with a flood yet set a bound that the waters may not again pass over the earth.
akjv hebrews 4:4-5 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God "did" rest the seventh day from "all" his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
P.S. It does not say he is resting but that he did rest, etc...
King James Bible
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Bambootiger, posted 08-27-2008 10:25 PM Bambootiger has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 35 of 121 (479522)
08-28-2008 2:41 AM


Thread moved here from the The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy forum.

  
AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 2875 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 36 of 121 (479554)
08-28-2008 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Bambootiger
08-28-2008 12:01 AM


Please address the issue
Bambootiger,
You ignored everything I said in my post. For some reason you are creating a doctrine around the word "day" when "day" is not the subject being discussed in all the scriptures you are working with.
WE have the concept of "day" and the concept of "rest".
They are two different and independent meaningful words. Your whole argument relies on the addition of words..."day of rest."
Ps 95:11 doesn't mention the word day does it? In context the passage is not talking about the sabbath or the creation.
The Hebrew passage has nothing in context that is talking about the length of time regarding a day. Hebrews is talking about "rest", but not "day of rest".
I will not argue with you that there is a "rest" that may be ongoing, but that does not follow that the "day" was ongoing. That is your mind speaking and not the scripture.
I do believe every word of the Hebrew writer, but I do not believe your additions to PS 95:11 and Hebrews 3-4.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day(in context 24 hrs.), to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days (in context 24 hrs.)shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day (in context 24 hrs.)is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days (in context 24 hrs.)the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day(in context 24 hrs.): wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day(in context 24 hrs.), and hallowed it.
It's amazing how God thought that his seventh day had and end in context. It amazing how Moses and the Israelites all understood the concept that their sabbath was to have a beginning and an end just like God's did.
It's also amazing how nothing in Ps 95:11 says anything about a day. Or about creation. Or about the sabbath.
It's amazing how nothing in Hebrews is discussing anything anywhere that indicates how long the seventh day of creation was.
And it is also amazing how you have chosen to add to God's word the concept that God's sabbath day didn't have an end just because the passage doesn't use the same phrase "an evening and a morning". Oh my! What I can make the Bible say, just because it doesn't say something in a particular passage.
You don't have to agree with me on this subject, Your argument is not with me, it is with Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Bambootiger, posted 08-28-2008 12:01 AM Bambootiger has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 37 of 121 (479620)
08-28-2008 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Bambootiger
08-28-2008 12:01 AM


The REST of the Story
Bambootiger writes:
A more modern and accurate translation shows that Genesis 2:2,3 are not in the past tense. Look at the Hebrew:
(Genesis 2:2) 2 And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made. . .
"And he proceeded to rest." Heb., wai”yish”both’. The verb is in the imperfect state denoting incomplete or continuous action, or action in progress.
(Genesis 2:3) 3 And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making.
, "he does rest (desist)." Heb., sha”vath’, perfect state. It shows the characteristic of an individual, namely, God, on the seventh day of his creative week.
(BBE) Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God came to the end of all his work; and on the seventh day he took his rest from all the work which he had done.
(BBE) Genesis 2:3 And God gave his blessing to the seventh day and made it holy: because on that day he took his rest from all the work which he had made and done.
(GodsWord) Genesis 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished work he had been doing. On the seventh day he stopped the work he had been doing.
(GodsWord) Genesis 2:3 "Then God blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation."
(Young) Genesis 2:2 and God completeth by the seventh day His work which He hath made, and ceaseth by the seventh day from all His work which He hath made.
(Young) Genesis 2:3 And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.
(TEV) Genesis 2:3 He blessed the seventh day and set it apart as a special day, because by that day he had completed his creation and stopped working.
Let me just quote the relavent portion of Hebrews, but first consider that the rest here to which Christians could enter into was not the promised land, because that is where they already lived.:
(Hebrews 3:18-4:10) 18 But to whom did he swear that they should not enter into his rest except to those who acted disobediently? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of lack of faith. 4 Therefore, since a promise is left of entering into his rest, let us fear that sometime someone of YOU may seem to have fallen short of it. 2 For we have had the good news declared to us also, even as they also had; but the word which was heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who did hear. 3 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: "So I swore in my anger, ”They shall not enter into my rest,’" although his works were finished from the founding of the world. 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works," 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter into my rest." 6 Since, therefore, it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience, 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying after so long a time in David’s [psalm] "Today"; just as it has been said above: "Today if YOU people listen to his own voice, do not harden YOUR hearts." 8 For if Joshua had led them into a place of rest, [God] would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath resting for the people of God. 10 For the man that has entered into [God’s] rest has also himself rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.
Some of the cross references:
Verse 18 (Numbers 14:30)
4:1 a
(Exodus 20:11) 11 For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.
"And he proceeded to rest." Progressive action indicated by a Heb. verb in the imperfect state.
4:1b
Galations 5:4; Hebrews 3:12;12:15
4:2a
Matthew 4:23; Acts 15:7; Colossians 1:23 (the good news of God's Kingdom)
4:2b
(Exodus 19:5) 5 And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me.
(It wasn't the place, but their relationship with God, and service to him)
Verse 3 quotes Psalms 95:11
Verse 4 quotes Genesis 2:2
Verse 5 quotes Psalm 85:11 again
Verse 7 quotes Psalms 95:7 and verse 8
verse 8a
(Joshua 22:4) 4 And now Jehovah YOUR God has given YOUR brothers rest, just as he promised them. So now turn and go YOUR way to YOUR tents in the land of YOUR possession, which Moses the servant of Jehovah gave YOU on the other side of the Jordan.
8b
(Jeremiah 6:16) . . .6 This is what Jehovah has said: "Stand still in the ways, YOU people, and see, and ask for the roadways of long ago, where, now, the good way is; and walk in it, and find ease for YOUR souls." But they kept saying: "We are not going to walk."
The key to the goal that Paul was pointing is verse 2 where it refers to the "Good News" and Jesus said that this was concerning "God's Kingdom". This is the Kingdom he taught us to pray for in the model prayer ; the goverment which will accomplish God's original purpose for man and the earth This ties in with Matthew 5:5 and Psalms 37 from where Jesus quoted it. It is not the place, the earth, but what God will do for us there which is described in Revelation 20:12,13 and 22:1,2 We can enter into God's rest by obediance to him.
However, again, the point is that Paul quoted from Genesis and said that while God "proceeded to rest" that day od reat was still continuing.
First let me say that Your formatting sucks!. Your paragraphs, quotes and comments all run together as if you have copied someone else's argument without cleaning it up for us; without considering how difficult it might be for your reader's to decipher what you have posted. Running with scissors, cutting-&-pasting like there's no tomorrow. A cut-&paste orgy. You know that's against our rules. Don't you?
It is your job to find and present the gems you believe to be located in the ore of scripture. What I see resembles a worthless pile of tailings. You often fail to note the version you are quoting and you fail set your quotes apart from the body of your comments. There may be an argument in there somewhere but I am getting a headache looking for it. Is that your tactic? Are you afraid you haven't dazzled us with your brilliance so now you seek to baffle us with your bullshit? I'm sure you can do better. I believe I have seen you do better. Even so, for your sake, despite my annoyance and an increasingly negative opinion regarding your attention to detail, I will attempt to find your precious in this train wreck of a post.
Bambootiger writes:
A more modern and accurate translation shows that Genesis 2:2,3 are not in the past tense. Look at the Hebrew:
My reference was to Exodus NOT Genesis.
(and your assertion of a "more ... accurate translation" is highly debatable, especially when you do not cite the name of the translation to which you refer).
Are you not concerned about the apparent contradiction this represents? And it is not an isolated incident, you know? Here's another, from the Ten Commandments no less:
quote:
For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: ... Exodus 20:11
And concerning that "rest" there are these clarifications:
quote:
And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: ... Exodus 16:23
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15
This "sabbath of rest" is clearly the seventh day of the weekly cycle. It memorializes creation week.
"God worked six days and took the seventh off. You are to do the same" (paraphrasing Moses).
There is no record of Jesus mentioning a "day" which is eons long. There is no record of Jesus mentioning that God has stopped creating things. There is a record of how Jesus related to the Sabbath: he is called "Lord of the sabbath," and was ressurected "in the end of the sabbath" - "when the sabbath was past." Seems to me this might suggest that the "sabbath" you imagine had come to an end like a lot of other things from the Old Testament are supposed to have done at the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
quote:
In the end of the sabbath , as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Matthew 28:1
And when the sabbath was past , Mary Magdalene, and Mary the [mother] of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. Mark 16:1 KJV
Paul quoted from Genesis and said that while God "proceeded to rest" that day od reat was still continuing.
Says your favorite "translation" which you have yet to identify.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Bambootiger, posted 08-28-2008 12:01 AM Bambootiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Me4Him, posted 10-06-2008 8:39 AM doctrbill has not replied

  
Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5644 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 38 of 121 (485192)
10-06-2008 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by doctrbill
08-28-2008 7:27 PM


Re: The REST of the Story
If I may "join in the discussion".
"TIME" in scripture is only "RECORDED" where "Sin exist".
A "Record" of "time passing" is not recorded for the "Creation Days", because sin didn't "exist".
God told Adam, "in the day" you sin, you die.
Sin started "recording" a "record" of time passing, not only for man, but also the earth, it to has an "end".
In Hell, people are tormented "day and night", which records the "passing of time".
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
However, in heaven, there only "DAY", no night to mark the passing of time.
Re 22:5 And there shall be no night there;
How long is "Eternity", no one can say, (much less comprehend) there's no "record" from which to "judge" time passing.
How long was the "creations days", no one can say, there's no record of them either.
What records we have of the creation days was to establish a record for the passing of time "AFTER" sin entered the world.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
The same "pattern of days" described for the world beginning is also the same "pattern" described for it's end.
http://i32.tinypic.com/30a6dd1.jpg
On either side of sin, Creation days, before sin, Eternity, after sin,
There's no record of "TIME".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by doctrbill, posted 08-28-2008 7:27 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 121 (485292)
10-06-2008 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Bambootiger
08-24-2008 7:14 PM


1. There is a reason for the sun and moon being created on the 4th day rather than when the earth was lighted. Imo, that reason was that for the water to be evaporated from the earth to create the suitable atmosphere for the designer, Jehovah's plans for the planet, intensive heat was applied via the Holy Spirit of Jehovah, that member of the trinity which Jehovah sends out throughout his universe to perform the work which Jehovah wanted to do. The Holy Spirit applied that intense light/heat.
2. It was not until day four that the day became 24 hours, since that was one of the things these bodies were to determine upon planet earth according to the text.
3. The length of days one, two, three and four are unknown since the length of them is not given in the text. I include day four since we do not know how long it took for the sun, moon and stars (likely the stars of the Milky Way Galaxy or the ones closest to the earth) to be created.
5. Days five and six were 24 hours since the sun and moon were completed.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Bambootiger, posted 08-24-2008 7:14 PM Bambootiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5644 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 40 of 121 (485325)
10-07-2008 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
10-06-2008 11:40 PM


In Scripture, the "Natural light" the "SUN", is the "Symbol" representing "Jesus", the "Spiritual Light".
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;
Jesus was born/crucified in the "evening of the "FOURTH DAY".
Ge 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Mt 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Jesus deliberately waited until the Fourth day before resurrecting Lazarus, foreshadowing his appearence in the fourth day.
The "MOON" is the "Symbol" representing "Any assemble of God's people", Jew or Gentile. (church)
The "Water" Jesus gave the woman at the well evaporates into the "Spirit" to give life,
Good point, I hadn't considered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 10-06-2008 11:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 10-09-2008 9:18 PM Me4Him has not replied
 Message 42 by johnfolton, posted 10-09-2008 10:31 PM Me4Him has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 121 (485592)
10-09-2008 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Me4Him
10-07-2008 11:35 AM


Thanks Me4Him and a hearty welcome to EvC. Your analogies to Jesus etc were thoughtful and interesting.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Me4Him, posted 10-07-2008 11:35 AM Me4Him has not replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 42 of 121 (485594)
10-09-2008 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Me4Him
10-07-2008 11:35 AM


3 twenty four hour days
Jesus was born/crucified in the "evening of the "FOURTH DAY
It just appears it can only be three full 24 hour days after he was crucified. So he could only of been crucified on Wednesday the evening of the 4th day for the Lord to fullfill scripture in being in the earth 3 days and nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40. Luke is the clincher it was a Wednesday but on the 4th day and after 3 full days he was bodily resurrected on the first day of the week being a Sunday.
P.S. Its an interesting analogy also satisfies Jonah three days in the belly of a whale and then 40 days with the apostles after the 1st day when he was parted from them and carried up into heaven. Acts 1:9 and Luke 24:51. akjv rev 1:18
akjv Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
akjv Luke 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 43 of 121 (485597)
10-09-2008 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by johnfolton
10-09-2008 10:31 PM


Topic drift alert
These other considerations of "day" may be interesting, but they are not relevant to this topic's theme. If you feel the need, propose a new topic for them.
Look at the topic title: "Genesis Day", "Age of the Earth". Messages should directly tie into those items.
Adminnemooseus

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It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 44 of 121 (485601)
10-10-2008 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Bambootiger
08-24-2008 7:14 PM


Re A Genesis Day
Bambootiger writes:
How long is a "day" in the first chapter of Genesis? Does the Bible say how old the earth Is?
Point of View
After reading the first 42 posts in this thread I am totaly confused and am beginning to understand why creationist views are not received very well here.
Let me see if I can make it worse.
How long is a day in the first chapter of Genesis?
One daylight period and one period of darkness.
Does the Bible say how old the earth is?
No and neither does it say how old the universe is.
Much has been said about day. yowm 1) day, time,
This word is used in Gen. 1:5, 8, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19, 23, 31.
Gen. 2:3, 4, 17. Gen. 3:5, 8. Gen. 4:14. Gen. 5:1, 2. Gen. 7:11
In fact it is used 1732 times in 1533 verses.
The meaning does not change.
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
You tell me when the beginning was and I will tell you how old the universe and earth are. But that will not tell you when they took the form they are today.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
I want to pay attention to the word's translated was, and without form.
Was hayah 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out.
According to the definition of the word was is a bad translation.
It should read become, or came to be.
Without form tohuw 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness, wasteland, a place of chaos.
Take your pick it could have been translated any of those.
But that would not have fit the theology at the time of translation.
Now moving on to the actions that took place.
Genesis 1:1 Creation of heaven (singular) and earth.
Genesis 1:2 The earth became void, no life forms, a place of chaos.
There was only darkness.
There was nothing but the face of the waters. No dry land. All covered with water.
The earth was already in existence prior to Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:3 God said let there be light.
Genesis 1:4 God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Since it was already evening there was only a period of darkness to complete day one.
But wait a minute Genesis 1:1 took place in a day.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Genesis 2:4 says it is the generations (history) of what happened in the day, the light part before the earth became a place of chaos.
This history does not end until Genesis 4:26.
The question is, how long was this light part as there was no night then to mark a cycle of light and darkness. That means there was no time as you and I know time.
Everything that took place from Genesis 1:2 through 1:5 took place in the evening and the morning of day one.
Message 15
Bambootiger writes:
If you read through these first chapters of Genesis you will see that "day" is used in different ways. On the first day only the light portion is called "day" and yet at the end of the same day the entire evening to morning is called "day" and this is despite the fact that evening to morning is not 24 hours.Another example is Genesis 2:4 where it does not say "days" but refers to all 6 days as "day" singular.
Genesis 2:4 does not refer to Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3.
It refers to Genesis 1:1 and plainly states so.
"in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heaven"
You are the first one that I have seen that noticed that the first day only lasted 12 hours from the evening until the morning.
But that is only because no one accepts that Genesis 1:1 took place at a different time that Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:6, 7 in the morning God put a firmament in the midst of the waters and divided the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Since God created a heaven in Genesis 1:1 and has now created a second heaven, we now have two heavens no make that three because Paul said he was caught up into the third heaven where God was. II Cor 12:2.
Genesis 1:9 God gathered the water into one place and dry land appeared.
Genesis 1:11 God said let the earth bring forth grass and herb yeilding seed, and fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,
whose seed is in itself, upon the earth. Where did those seed come from?
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Now the word yowm 1) day, time, is translated day in every instant the word day appears in the verses above.
Since we have evidence that a day is close to 24 hours now that means they were the same in Genesis from the time light and darkness was divided.
Creationist sound stupid trying to make the Bible say what they believe rather than believe what the Bible says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Bambootiger, posted 08-24-2008 7:14 PM Bambootiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-10-2008 11:48 AM ICANT has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 121 (485655)
10-10-2008 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by ICANT
10-10-2008 2:40 AM


Re: Re A Genesis Day
But wait a minute Genesis 1:1 took place in a day.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
How do you distinguish between using the phrase "in the day" to mean either:
1) in one exact day
2) in the time period during
For example: "In the day of Jesus". How do you tell if it means that Jesus only lived for one day or if means during the time period that Jesus lived?
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
I've heard that a better translation would be:
"In the beginning while God was creating the heaven and the earth"
What do you think about that?

why type the extre "Re" in there when the reply function does it on its own? Because now I have 2 Re's up there and it looks stupid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2008 2:40 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2008 12:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
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