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Author Topic:   Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse?
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 226 of 316 (687433)
01-10-2013 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by ICANT
01-10-2013 3:33 PM


Re: The China Study
I believe that the energy stored in the food we eat has a direct effect on the amount of energy we can expend in activity without getting tired.
Ok, so you agree that there is a correlation with food and being active. For example, someone who has a greasy burger for lunch is going to have less energy than someone who has a lean meat and vegetables.
There isn't actual "energy" in food, but I think I get what you're saying.
But a person that receives enough food to power the body for a day's work and will not preform the work is lazy.
"Amount" of food is really not the issue. It's what kind of food that's the issue. Here again, someone can eat two Whoppers from Burger King and have a sufficient "amount" of food, but it's of very poor quality with very little nutritional value. As opposed to someone who has for example a single protein shake and a banana. This person will have much more energy than the Whopper eater could ever have.
So what can be perceived as laziness could just be very poor quality eating habits that reduce the amout of work the body is potentially capable of.
A person that is not willing to work to provide food for himself/herself for their family is lazy. A person that would rather sit around and watch TV and let someone else supply the food for their family is lazy.
But I don't think this happens without some kind of casual agent. It could be someone who is suffering from depression, or bipolar, or simply is eating poor quality food usually associated with low income people, or even diabetic, or some other condition that has reduced the amount of energy the person has.
I'll grant you, there are people who just don't want to have a job - I'm one of them. But there are also people who simply don't have the energy to function at a high enough capacity.
So I think the food we eat: the type of food we eat, the quality of the food we eat, and of course exercising and being physical, are all related to one's ability to work.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2013 3:33 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Taq, posted 01-10-2013 5:14 PM onifre has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 227 of 316 (687443)
01-10-2013 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by onifre
01-10-2013 4:03 PM


Re: The China Study
"Amount" of food is really not the issue. It's what kind of food that's the issue. Here again, someone can eat two Whoppers from Burger King and have a sufficient "amount" of food, but it's of very poor quality with very little nutritional value. As opposed to someone who has for example a single protein shake and a banana. This person will have much more energy than the Whopper eater could ever have.
So what can be perceived as laziness could just be very poor quality eating habits that reduce the amout of work the body is potentially capable of.
I think there is a more important point here. Is our perception of "energy" a measure of the actual metabolic state in our muscles? Or is it a mental state produced by serotonin or other neurochemicals?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by onifre, posted 01-10-2013 4:03 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by onifre, posted 01-10-2013 6:39 PM Taq has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 228 of 316 (687455)
01-10-2013 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Taq
01-10-2013 5:14 PM


Re: The China Study
Both...
Or is it a mental state produced by serotonin or other neurochemicals?
This is the result of exercising, which boosts the mood enhancing chemicals in your body.
Is our perception of "energy" a measure of the actual metabolic state in our muscles?
Your digestive system has to break down the food, obviously. So when you have sugary snacks, lots of fat, or refined carbs your body digests it quickly - which is why sometimes after eating a greasy meal you have to shit immediately. You have quick energy, but then you crash and become very tired. This can then be viewed as laziness, but basically what the person is experiencing is a loss of energy due to the food they ate.
But, when you have high fibers such as wheat bread or brown rice, or beans which are complex carbs, or lean proteins, it takes way longer for your body to digest and gives you lasting energy. Then, you have enough energy to get to the gym and workout, thus enhancing your mood, thus making you less depressed, etc, etc, etc...
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Taq, posted 01-10-2013 5:14 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Taq, posted 01-10-2013 9:08 PM onifre has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 229 of 316 (687470)
01-10-2013 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by onifre
01-10-2013 6:39 PM


Re: The China Study
Your digestive system has to break down the food, obviously. So when you have sugary snacks, lots of fat, or refined carbs your body digests it quickly - which is why sometimes after eating a greasy meal you have to shit immediately. You have quick energy, but then you crash and become very tired. This can then be viewed as laziness, but basically what the person is experiencing is a loss of energy due to the food they ate.
But, when you have high fibers such as wheat bread or brown rice, or beans which are complex carbs, or lean proteins, it takes way longer for your body to digest and gives you lasting energy. Then, you have enough energy to get to the gym and workout, thus enhancing your mood, thus making you less depressed, etc, etc, etc...
- Oni
Everything I have read indicates that this is a very pervasive myth.
quote:
If you're sluggish at 4pm, conventional wisdom says you're hypoglycemic. Your blood sugar's low, and some M&Ms will make those levels spike then plunge. But that line of thinking has as much truth as the Loch Ness legend, without even a grainy photo to back it up.
"There's no evidence to support the idea that mid-afternoon tiredness is caused by hypoglycemia, or that healthy people feel normal fluctuations in blood sugar," says endocrinologist Dr Phillip Cryer. "The threshold for symptoms of low blood sugar is 50 to 55mg of glucose per deciliter [100ml] of blood, and it's very, very rare for a healthy person to get to those levels."
http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/...934302/instant-em-energy-em
This makes a lot more sense from what learned in school and learned since. Blood sugar is highly regulated in the blood stream. If anything, exercise reduces insulin production and actually boosts glucose levels. Slow release of glucose into the blood stream doesn't make any difference.

This message is a reply to:
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WarriorArchangel
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 14
From: Lynn MA US
Joined: 03-02-2013


Message 230 of 316 (692504)
03-04-2013 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
12-09-2012 7:40 PM


Blood Suckers
Illegal aliens......
Blacks and browns on the dole....
Entitlements....all minorities......

My mission is to expound on our Father of Christ Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by onifre, posted 12-09-2012 7:40 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 231 of 316 (692506)
03-04-2013 10:02 AM


trolling

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 232 of 316 (693055)
03-10-2013 2:00 PM


Health Insurance is what hurts US Health Care
[qs] Claire Blanche health care for everyone paid by a government whocollects the money to pay for it is equivalent to what Egypt did when the Pharaohs build Pyramids that guarnteed immortality.
We now have growing communities of brain death Althemizer patients and people on a life support course of medical care that replaces body parts and hearts with future promises that we can alllive practically forever.
The medical arts are extending their abilities in parallel with the willingness of the government to pay for the sevices which will accomplish these goals.
That to some extent this is desirable, no line has been drawn in regard to where this ought stop, while the Health Care Sectoris already 20% of the economy, at least as high as in ancient Egypt.

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 233 of 316 (716440)
01-16-2014 1:47 PM


Obamacare - Good or Bad or still waiting to see?
I am Canadian, so I know jack-all about this.
I do have some family in the states.
They are an average family, of average means.
From what I've heard, new healthcare laws have raised their costs, and lowered their coverage.
I've heard that it's a horrible flop, causing nothing but issues and it's ruining everyone's shit. (Well, not rich people...)
It's been out for a while now, hasn't it? Is it time to discuss whether or not it's been good or bad?
Or is there still a call to "let more time pass" to see what happens?
I thought it was a good idea, and a good first step in the right direction.
Now I just sort of think it was the same old tired political story to push ahead some other agenda and screw all the people who get affected.
Does anyone have any positive anecdotes about it?
Any comments on these sorts of allegations?
Obama deal to bail out insurance companies if new heath care doesn't make them money
80% of doctors may quit because of Obamacare
Is there any good news about it at all?
Is it a complete catastrophe?
I heard the plan was somewhat based on being supported by the younger generation signing up.
But... that younger generation has said "fuck you" because it's a horrible plan that costs way too much money.
So, without the younger generation bearing their load of the costs... the whole thing is in jeopardy anyway?
Edited by Stile, : Forgot to add the last paragraph. Doctor said it's nothing and I don't need to worry about it, some brains are just more forgetful than others.

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Modulous, posted 01-16-2014 1:55 PM Stile has replied
 Message 235 by Theodoric, posted 01-16-2014 2:48 PM Stile has replied
 Message 237 by Taq, posted 01-17-2014 5:23 PM Stile has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 234 of 316 (716441)
01-16-2014 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Stile
01-16-2014 1:47 PM


Re: Obamacare - Good or Bad or still waiting to see?
Does anyone have any positive anecdotes about it?
Nonreligious Questions
quote:
So, instead of $7200 per year for catastrophic insurance for Carol and I, plus paying out about $10,000 out of pocket each year due to the high deductible and pre-existing conditionswe will pay either $1200 or $3600 per year for a damned sight better coverage and much fewer out of pocket expenses.
Obama deal to bail out insurance companies if new heath care doesn't make them money
There is provision to mitigate losses to them caused by increased cost to them. Not ideal, but that's capitalism for you.
First of all - there will be fund set up (paid for not by the government, but by a fee on insurance premiums. It is a reinsurance scheme, and it entirely common. This fund will contribute costs towards particularly expensive medical bills over $45k dollars. It helps prevent the insurance companies from going bankrupt in the face of large unexpected expenses.
The second provision, the 'ESTABLISHMENT OF RISK CORRIDORS FOR PLANS IN INDIVIDUAL AND SMALL GROUP MARKETS;' is kind of difficult to understand. As far as I can tell, after reinsurances and the like, if an insurance company pays more in benefits than they take in premiums they get a payout (and if they don't they pay a fine). The idea here is, I think, to provide confidence to the market that the insurance companies will have a readjustment period so unexpected consequences of ACA won't cause chaos. After a few years, they should have figured out their new costs and the scheme ends.
80% of doctors may quit because of Obamacare
Wow, really? A study performed by a group dedicated to repealing Obamacare as reported by a Fox News author found some frightening conclusion about Obamacare. It must be true then
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Stile, posted 01-16-2014 1:47 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Stile, posted 01-20-2014 11:43 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 235 of 316 (716445)
01-16-2014 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Stile
01-16-2014 1:47 PM


Re: Obamacare - Good or Bad or still waiting to see?
80% of doctors may quit because of Obamacare
Complete and utter bullshit. My wife is a doctor and I know a few doctors. None are going to leave practice because of "Obamacare". Most of the doctors I know are primary care ans they are very excited about the ACA. It means that primary care will at least get paid for a lot of services that they currently get payed very little or not at all for. What the hell are these docs going to do if the quit doctoring? Lobby?
Now lets look at the source of this crap.
Doctor Patient Medical Association is a Tea party creation and has very close ties to ALEC.
quote:
Did you know that American doctors are so incensed over Obamacare's big-government communist socialism that more than eight in ten are going to quit doctoring? It's true, according to a terribly conducted survey conducted by a shady right-wing group, reported credulously by the Daily Caller, and hyped by Matt Drudge and Fox News.
"Eighty-three percent of American physicians have considered leaving their practices over President Barack Obama's health care reform law, according to a survey released by the Doctor Patient Medical Association," reported the Daily Caller yesterday. What is the Doctor Patient Medical Association? The Daily Caller didn't seem too interested (beyond calling them "a non-partisan association of doctors and patients") so we'll have to fill in a few gaps.
The Doctor Patient Medical Association's founder, Kathryn Serkes, is a long-time veteran of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a collection of crackpot malcontents that opposes mandatory vaccinations, wrongly believes undocumented immigrants spread leprosy, and dabbled in Vince Foster conspiracy theorism. The group itself is solidly conservative in its politics: it boasts membership in the National Tea Party Federation; describes the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as "Destruction Of Our Medicine," or DOOM; and published a sheet of talking points about the health law to help grassroots activists "beat back the White House spin machine!"
But what about this improbable survey indicating that more than 3/4 of doctors have considered hanging up the stethoscope rather than tolerate Obamacare? Well, the first thing to point out is that the survey didn't actually ask about the Affordable Care Act. Here's the question and the results as given by DPMA:
How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?
I'm re-energized - 4.6%
Makes me think about quitting - 82.6%
Unsure/no opinion - 12.8%
So they're just assuming that every respondent, upon reading "current changes in the medical system," thought "Obamacare" and nothing else? Doesn't seem too likely. And when asked to give their opinion on these undefined "changes," they were given three options: super-excited, ready to quit, and "unsure." What if they were just slightly dissatisfied? Or cautiously optimistic? The survey left no room for anyone who didn't hold an extreme position.
All this leads up to 83 percent of respondents saying they are ready to quit their chosen profession even though they don't know what they're quitting over. That's a fairly good clue that we're not dealing with the most reliable sample.
And how did we arrive at this unreliable sample? Let's take a look at the methodology [emphasis added]:
The survey was conducted by fax and online from April 18 to May 22, 2012. DPMAF obtained the office fax numbers of 36,000 doctors in active clinical practice, and 16,227 faxes were successfully delivered. Doctors were asked to return their completed surveys by fax, or online at a web address included in the faxed copy. Browser rules prevented doctors from filing duplicate surveys, and respondents were asked to provide personal identification for verification. The response rate was 4.3% for a total of 699 completed surveys.
They had a tiny sample size culled from a scattershot blast-fax that allowed respondents more than a month to answer their questions. And it seems pretty clear that of the vanishingly small percentage that did actually respond, the vast majority were ideologically sympathetic to the DPMA and had axes in need of grinding. If you look at the survey demographics they provided, you'll see that a full 25 percent of respondents were from the South, which is generally more conservative than the rest of the country.
The survey question is entirely worthless as a barometer of professional medical opinion regarding the Affordable Care Act. Which is likely the reason no one paid it any mind when DPMA released it last month. But then the dim bulbs at the Breitbart empire picked it up, followed by the Daily Caller and Drudge, leading to its inevitable appearance on Fox News this morning. It's a uniquely awful survey, but it served up a shocking, headline-friendly number, which is why it's driving the right-wing media's coverage of health care policy.
Source
It seems all you are hearing is anti-ACA propaganda. Do your own research and vet sources before you jump to conclusions.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Stile, posted 01-16-2014 1:47 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Stile, posted 01-20-2014 11:49 AM Theodoric has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 236 of 316 (716452)
01-16-2014 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by WarriorArchangel
03-04-2013 9:33 AM


Re: Blood Suckers = companies that reap profits from poverty wage employees
Illegal aliens......
Blacks and browns on the dole....
Entitlements....all minorities......
Presumably you have some actual statistics to back this up rather than just parroting Faux Noise talking points.
Corporate welfare is the biggest strain on the budget, especially when these companies don't pay any taxes.
Why are most low wage people on SNAP and other assistance programs even when they work 2 jobs and more than 40 hours a week?
Wallmart and McDonalds for example ... most of them working parents ... while management claims record salaries.
If you don't know what is going on, then you are part of the problem.
You can choose to be ignorant, but it is an easily curable condition.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by WarriorArchangel, posted 03-04-2013 9:33 AM WarriorArchangel has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 237 of 316 (716493)
01-17-2014 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Stile
01-16-2014 1:47 PM


Re: Obamacare - Good or Bad or still waiting to see?
Is there any good news about it at all?
Is it a complete catastrophe?
It's a mixture of Chicken Littles, another excuse to bash Obama, and people following party orders.
In the end, it is just a slightly different way to buy the same private health insurance that Americans have been buying for decades. That's it. As in the past, premiums are going to go up for some people, and down for others. This was the case before Obamacare, and it will continue to be the case.
The only catastrophe in this whole thing is that they did not create socialized, single payer healthcare like you and our other good neighbors to the North have.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Stile, posted 01-16-2014 1:47 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Stile, posted 01-20-2014 11:52 AM Taq has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 238 of 316 (716521)
01-18-2014 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by kofh2u
03-10-2013 2:00 PM


Re: Health Insurance is what hurts US Health Care
kofh2u writes:
Claire Blanche health care for everyone paid by a government whocollects the money to pay for it is equivalent to what Egypt did when the Pharaohs build Pyramids that guarnteed immortality.
The pyramids guaranteed immortality to the pharaohs who collected the money, not to the people they collected it from. By analogy, Obamacare would guarantee the immortality of the U.S. government. If it lasts as long as the pyramids because of Obamacare....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by kofh2u, posted 03-10-2013 2:00 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 239 of 316 (716696)
01-20-2014 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Modulous
01-16-2014 1:55 PM


Re: Obamacare - Good or Bad or still waiting to see?
Modulous writes:
Wow, really? A study performed by a group dedicated to repealing Obamacare as reported by a Fox News author found some frightening conclusion about Obamacare. It must be true then
For sure.
I didn't think the number was actually that high, but I've also heard rumours from the Canada-side about the "reversal of the brain-drain."
Brain-drain is a Canadian term that acknowledges the bulk of our doctors go to school in Canada, then head to the US for the higher paying jobs. Apparently, the popularity of this move has been decreasing lately.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Modulous, posted 01-16-2014 1:55 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 240 of 316 (716697)
01-20-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Theodoric
01-16-2014 2:48 PM


Re: Obamacare - Good or Bad or still waiting to see?
What the hell are these docs going to do if the quit doctoring? Lobby?
Well, no... the argument is that they would doctor elsewhere. The united states isn't the only country with medical facilities.
Now lets look at the source of this crap.
Yeah, just wanted to hear the other side.
Do your own research and vet sources before you jump to conclusions.
What conclusions do you think I jumped to? If you read my post, it was asking questions... not making statements.
What better way to "vet sources" then to ask those who defend the concept for the opposing view?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Theodoric, posted 01-16-2014 2:48 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Theodoric, posted 01-20-2014 2:52 PM Stile has replied

  
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