|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 916,387 Year: 3,644/9,624 Month: 515/974 Week: 128/276 Day: 2/23 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Flat Earth Society | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2497 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
CS writes: No, you mean it in an even more ridiculous way. Ridiculous eh? We're not the ones suggesting that Australians play cricket while standing upside down, are we? Try doing that yourself if you think it's possible.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Global warming is going to be a problem - if they believe in it.
I think its so they can have the ice wall (Antarctica) surrounding everything and holding the oceans in.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1364 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined:
|
bluegenes writes: The coastline of the ice wall ("Antarctica") measures 17,968 km. do they have "proof" of this?
The circuit that Round Earthers consider to be the "equator" measures 6,378 km. more like 40,000 km. measurement: also a conspiracy. Edited by arachnophilia, : clarification
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
|
Their beards have never felt the touch of Occam's razor, and grow long.
(Does rather smell like a Poe though).Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ? |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2869 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
News: The Flat Earth Society's new website has launched and the Society is officially accepting new members for the first time since 2001!
I joined with the username flounder. Pancake was already taken.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
Should have joined as "The Square."
cf. Flatland - Wikipedia Edit to add: Or "Faith." Edited by Coyote, : Couldn't resistReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2869 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
Oh, she's going to hunt you down for that one. Watch your back. Along with the rest of the EvC posters, you're probably already on her list of people who need to be stoned, science worshiper.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CRR Member (Idle past 2263 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
I was surprised to find that Neil deGrasse Tyson believes in a flat Earth. Here's what he said;
quote: Do the physics and you will find this is only true on a flat Earth. In fact, we Round Earthers believe that if a bullet is fired level fast enough (>11.2 km/s) it will never hit the ground!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5946 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Do the physics and you will find this is only true on a flat Earth. In fact, we Round Earthers believe that if a bullet is fired level fast enough (>11.2 km/s) it will never hit the ground! Do please name that firearm. I have a reference book describing many pistols and rifles (even some antique pieces). Each description includes that firearm's muzzle velocity in fps and range (both effective and maximum) in meters. Your stated muzzle velocity of 11.2 km/s translates to 36,745.4 fps. I would be extremely interested to know what firearm has a muzzle velocity that great. Here are a few examples. For range, I will only give the maximum range since that is pertinent to this question:
quote: So the highest muzzle velocity I could find was 4850 fps (1.478 km/s). Not even close to your required muzzle velocity. So then do please tell us what firearm is capable of that muzzle velocity. We would really want to know. And just how much of a factor would the earth's curvature be at 4084 meters? Actually I would think that air resistance would be a greater factor, but then this was a basic physics problem.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
But too lazy do to the arithmetic:
There might be a tiny bit of truth to the flat earth statement though. Even if the fps is too low for escape velocity the fired bullet will travel a bit while the dropped bullet drops. The fired bullet will accelerate downward and drop at the same rate as the dropped bullet. However, on an ideal spherical billiard ball earth the earth will have dropped away (relatively speaking) because of it's curvature. Without doing the arithmetic I suspect that even under ideal conditions the difference will be too small to measure. On a real non billiard ball earth the local non-sphericalness will mean that the orginal statment about both fired and dropped bullet being equal is correct. Of course, you'd still have to be firing on a several kilometer long mirror smooth fireing range for it to work out.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CRR Member (Idle past 2263 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
It actually makes a bit over 1m height difference over 4084m. That should provide a measurable difference in the time it takes the bullet to reach the ground.
No rifle can fire a bullet fast enough but IF it could fire one at escape velocity plus a bit for air resistance (>11.2 km/s) then it would never hit the ground. So when you do the physics Neil deGrasse Tyson is a Flat Earther!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Nope. . Unlike in pseudoscience, it means something.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
|
CRR writes: Do the physics and you will find this is only true on a flat Earth. I believe you missed the point.Some statements are strong in one context, and weak in another depending on the point attempting to be made at the time. If Tyson always made all statements correct for all contexts, he would be extremely verbose and lose a lot of interest from his target audience. What he said is obviously to be taken in context of whether or not horizontal motion affects vertical motion.His statement, according to this point, is absolutely correct. If you want to know his views on a flat Earth, or how curvature of the Earth affects gun shots, why don't you ask him about that context instead of trying to put together a weak 'gotcha' moment that really speaks more about you than it does about Tyson's views. TL/DR: This isn't first grade. Put on your big boy pants and try to be honest.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
CRR writes:
As long as gravity is orthogonal to the surface, I don't think it makes any difference whether the surface is flat or convex - gravity will pull the bullet toward the surface. To fit the physics, a flat earth would need "lines of gravity" that were parallel instead of convergent at the center of mass. The theory would be different but the observations would be the same. Do the physics and you will find this is only true on a flat Earth. In fact, we Round Earthers believe that if a bullet is fired level fast enough (>11.2 km/s) it will never hit the ground! As for escape velocity, the question is: What happens to gravity when you're beyond the edge of the flat earth? That would depend on the alternate theory of how gravity works.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1045 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
As long as gravity is orthogonal to the surface, I don't think it makes any difference whether the surface is flat or convex - gravity will pull the bullet toward the surface. To fit the physics, a flat earth would need "lines of gravity" that were parallel instead of convergent at the center of mass. The theory would be different but the observations would be the same. The curvature definitely makes a difference - otherwise satellites wouldn't stay in orbit. Consider the following childish drawing. The blue lines are the velocity vector at time A, the yellows at time B. The red lines are supposed to represent acceleration towards the centre of the earth due to gravity,
In the round earth case, the satellite is being accelerated towards the centre of the earth, but due to it's momentum orthogonal to the earth doesn't approach the surface, since the surface is curving away. Putting an object in stable orbit is all about calculating the right forward (orthogonal to the radius of the earth) speed (square root of the acceleration due to gravity multiplied by the distance to the centre of the earth). In the flat earth case, in contract, acceleration due to gravity would eventually bring the satellite crashing to the ground regardless of it's speed (unless it overshot the edge). By my count, a bullet would need to be travelling at only a little over 7.9 km/s a second to achieve orbital velocity and never hit the ground - at least if there was neither air resistance nor pesky things like trees, buildings and hills to get in the way.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024