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Author Topic:   Is religion good for us?
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 181 (759083)
06-08-2015 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by mikechell
06-08-2015 4:12 PM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
So bitching about the thread running off-topic was just a preamble to you contributing your own off-topic nonsense?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by mikechell, posted 06-08-2015 4:12 PM mikechell has not replied

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 181 (759087)
06-08-2015 8:02 PM


not really, Phat. Not off topic, Jon.
Friedman had some good ideas, but no, I do not subscribe to all of his ideologies.
Jon, I thought I was being very on topic. Too often, the Bible is used to justify forced "assistance." We all know when it's been used to justify violence, too.
If the teachings kept the peace ... if "believers" practiced tolerance, then it would be a good influence.
That said, it WAS a crutch for my Mom, when she was going through a rough time in her life. There are benefits to the peaceful and "uplifting" parts ... but "Stranger in a Strange Land" would teach the same things if anyone wanted to believe it like a bible.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Raphael, posted 06-08-2015 9:34 PM mikechell has replied
 Message 157 by Jon, posted 06-09-2015 8:15 AM mikechell has not replied

  
Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


(1)
Message 154 of 181 (759092)
06-08-2015 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by mikechell
06-08-2015 8:02 PM


Re: not really, Phat. Not off topic, Jon.
Greetings, Mike! Welcome to EvC. I am interested in the things you have said here. Some of the natives can be quite straightforward at first but I have grown to see all of them as friends. Please stick around!
mikechell writes:
, I thought I was being very on topic. Too often, the Bible is used to justify forced "assistance." We all know when it's been used to justify violence, too.
If the teachings kept the peace ... if "believers" practiced tolerance, then it would be a good influence.
It is pretty clear you're coming here with some ideas of your own you wish to share. Those are valid. Your experience is your experience. I agree that the Bible has at times been used to justify unfortunate things, a tool used to control. But at the same time, generalizations really help nobody. You speak of believers as if you have met every believer. There are hypocrites from every walk of life. If I have learned anything in this life (and from EvC ) it is to examine my own presuppositions instead of assuming things about others.
I am curious though if you think religion is good for us? If not, what is your reasoning for coming to such a conclusion?
Regards!
- Raph

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by mikechell, posted 06-08-2015 8:02 PM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 7:40 AM Raphael has not replied

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 155 of 181 (759116)
06-09-2015 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Raphael
06-08-2015 9:34 PM


Thanks for the welcome, Raphael.
I don't know if I can answer the question with a definitive response.
Religion as "good" ... As I stated before, I saw the positive side in my Mother. Without the Church and her belief in God, I don't know if she would have survived. I have seen people in bad situations worldwide, existing happily because they believe there's a "better life" after this one.
Religion as "bad" ... 9/11/2001 ... anti-abortion activist ... anti-gay activist ... white supremacists ... and of course, radical muslims.
I do not believe in a god, but I do believe that a book can be used to control the masses. If it's use to control them peacefully, then religion can be good for us. If it's used (seems more frequent) to drive the mob mentality for destruction, then it's obviously bad for us.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Raphael, posted 06-08-2015 9:34 PM Raphael has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by MrHambre, posted 06-09-2015 10:08 AM mikechell has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 156 of 181 (759122)
06-09-2015 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by mikechell
06-08-2015 4:12 PM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
Wow!!
Off-topic on the first post. You're good.
You really should learn more about economics instead of false right wing talking points. Why is a poor person spending money "squandering" but a rich person spending money job creation? You do realize the rich spend a less percentage of income than the poor don't you.
Learn basic economics then try again.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by mikechell, posted 06-08-2015 4:12 PM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:02 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 157 of 181 (759125)
06-09-2015 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by mikechell
06-08-2015 8:02 PM


Re: not really, Phat. Not off topic, Jon.
And I thought you couldn't get any more disgusting...

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by mikechell, posted 06-08-2015 8:02 PM mikechell has not replied

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 158 of 181 (759137)
06-09-2015 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Theodoric
06-09-2015 7:59 AM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
If a millionaire spends $100,000.00, that person has spent only 1% of total worth, but it might be 100% of income.
A "paycheck to paycheck" person (what I consider poor, and I am only a couple of paychecks above that) can't spend that much money, period. If they are given a government handout of, say $1000.00, and they spend that on drugs, beer, cable and a $50,000.00 car payment (because, you gotta have nice wheels, huh?), they squandered it.
And now, that Millionaire, who was forced (by taxation) to give $1000.00 to 1000 poor people is now a poor person ... and we now have 1001 poor people.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2015 7:59 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2015 10:42 AM mikechell has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 159 of 181 (759139)
06-09-2015 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by mikechell
06-09-2015 7:40 AM


Re: Thanks for the welcome, Raphael.
Religion as "bad" ... 9/11/2001 ... anti-abortion activist ... anti-gay activist ... white supremacists ... and of course, radical muslims.
Even as easy answers go, the word religion seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
There's certainly a religious aspect to the way young men are radicalized in the Middle East. But ignoring all the political resentment, cultural ideas about manhood and rebellion, and economic vested interests in the phenomenon of modern terrorism is just way too self-serving. Religion in American history is such a vast subject that simply blaming right-wing numbnuttery on religion is turning a blind eye to the function of religion in such episodes as abolition, the Social Gospel, the civil rights struggle, and women's suffrage. And if you're going to make it sound like the terms radical and muslim go together, you're pretending the docile, Westernized form of Islam practiced in the USA either doesn't exist or isn't True Islam.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 7:40 AM mikechell has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 160 of 181 (759146)
06-09-2015 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by mikechell
06-09-2015 10:02 AM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
You are just proving you have no idea how economics works or what reality is for tha matter.
When poor people(there are millions more than rich people) spend their money there is no effect on the economy? Where does that money go? Also, studies show that people on public assistance have a lower drug use than society as a whole. Facts suck I know. Who makes the beer, provides cable service? That is exactly what we want people to do with their money in order to have a healthy economy, buying good and services. Trickle down does not work, never has.
If a millionaire spends $100,000.00, that person has spent only 1% of total worth, but it might be 100% of income.
Yes and $900,000 is locked up in investments and not working to help the economy. Thanks for making my point. If 1,000,000 people making $30,000 spend all of their income, how much does that add to the economy?
Really bud, think things through and study economics just a little bit. The right wing faux noise machine is lying to you.
Then again if you have any real evidence for your views please present it.
ABE
Oh yeah 100,000 is what percent of 1,000,000? If you don't understand basic percentages how can you expect to understand economics?
Edited by Theodoric, : ABE
Oh yeah 100,000 is what percent of 1,000,000? If you don't understand basic percentages how can you expect to understand economics?
Edited by Theodoric, : Put edit in wrong place. Been a while.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:02 AM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:59 AM Theodoric has replied

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 181 (759150)
06-09-2015 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Theodoric
06-09-2015 10:42 AM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
Sorry, Theodoric. I mis-typed ... 10%
Also, I apologize for riling up your democratic views on the economy.
This thread isn't about the failures of the current administration ... it's about religion.
I bow out of any further conversations on the economy, on this thread.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2015 10:42 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2015 11:07 AM mikechell has replied
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 06-09-2015 12:43 PM mikechell has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 162 of 181 (759152)
06-09-2015 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by mikechell
06-09-2015 10:59 AM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
Go ahead and post your unevidenced crap in an appropriate thread or create a new one. You obviously need some lessons in economics. But then again willful ignorance is difficult to overcome.
This thread isn't about the failures of the current administration
And the obligatory right wing swipe at President Obama. You are a piece of work aren't you?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:59 AM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 5:20 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 163 of 181 (759166)
06-09-2015 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by mikechell
06-09-2015 10:59 AM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
mikechell writes:
evidence over faith ... observation over theory
I think your concept of "theory" is skewed.
(We can disagree with just about anything on this forum. Don't let the sabre-rattling scare you off.)
Nice fish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 10:59 AM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 5:24 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 181 (759194)
06-09-2015 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Theodoric
06-09-2015 11:07 AM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
And the obligatory right wing swipe at President Obama. You are a piece of work aren't you?
LOL You started the "swiping". You're a funny guy.
I think your concept of "theory" is skewed.
I am not sure ... theory is a concept of what SHOULD be. But if a different reality presents through observation ... the theory was wrong. No?
Edited by mikechell, : No reason given.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2015 11:07 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 06-09-2015 6:14 PM mikechell has replied

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 181 (759195)
06-09-2015 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by ringo
06-09-2015 12:43 PM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
(We can disagree with just about anything on this forum. Don't let the sabre-rattling scare you off.)
Never ... nothing scares me.
Nice fish.
Thank you ... it's my personal best. I like your avatar, too.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 06-09-2015 12:43 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 166 of 181 (759199)
06-09-2015 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by mikechell
06-09-2015 5:20 PM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
Around these here parts we generally use the scientific version of the word "theory" meaning a well-substantiated explanation based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment, not the pop culture definition of "guess".
I've never heard the "should be" definition before.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 5:20 PM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 7:21 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
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