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Author | Topic: Human Programming | |||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
sorry, I don't know why a partial post was submitted, please reply to the previous one
Added by edit (ABE): I can added the stuff from your reply to the partial post into your reply to the full post after you post it. Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE
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Kader Member (Idle past 3749 days) Posts: 156 Joined: |
Well it is, and not only to me, but to EVERYONE that is NOT christian. False again with yet another absolute unsubstantiated annoying assertion. Well take it differently. Once you affirm you are not christian it is usually either because you adhere to another religion, wich generally means that you find others belief illogical...
quote: or because you have studied the said religion and chose that it is hard (illogical) to believe X, Y or Z thing really happened just because someone or something claim so. So in both cases (wich should logically englobe pretty much..everycases) if someone isn't christian, I can safly say that he finds the whole belief illogical, or that you have to make illogical assumption to believe the whole thing. They might be exceptions.. I'm just not intelligent enough to find any right now Please note that my annoying comment arent there to annoy you. It is justs omething that I find quite logical. And usually don't spend to much time explaining it. But I'll try each time to make myself a little bit clearer
Well, if we take clay to mean earth, in general. We are made up of atoms and those atoms came from the earth so its not that hard to say that we are made of the earth. When this was explained in Biblical times, those people didn't know what atoms were so the term dirt, or clay, possibly meaning the earth was used. Its unnecessary to assume that it means that we are literally made of clay. Yet this interpretation isn't logical to me. We're made up of a lot of thing that are not earthly, hydrogen, oxygen etc.. and no, atom doesn't come from the earth... So even your interpretation isn't true...
Again, an argument can be true but still be illogical
If we don't assume anything outside of our knowledge I don't see how....
If you threw the coin so hard that it exited the Earth's gravitational pull then, logically, it would not come back down. Can you throw a coin and make it leave the gravitational pull ?I was speaking as if "someone" threw the coin. A human, you me or anyone else. oh and..well check my previous message
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Do you want to go through the (probably lenghty) process of defining thoses evidence. No, not really.
By evidence, I mean evidence outside of conditioning. So any evidence that require ZERO biblical knowledge. Simply put theses evidence to be outside of conditionning could be explained to someone that is not conditioned to believe in the bible (or even never heard about it). It would only be evidence for either the soul or the belief in god and it would all be subjective. Still though, I don’t really care to get into it.
So in both cases (wich should logically englobe pretty much..everycases) if someone isn't christian, I can safly say that he finds the whole belief illogical, or that you have to make illogical assumption to believe the whole thing. I think the only illogical assumption that I make is that God is omnipotent.
Yet this interpretation isn't logical to me. We're made up of a lot of thing that are not earthly, hydrogen, oxygen etc.. and no, atom doesn't come from the earth... So even your interpretation isn't true... Because you’re misinformed and misunderstood it. Hydrogen and Oxygen are elements that are found in dirt and the earth. The atoms that you are made of were once bound to substances that comprised the earth, ie the came from the earth. So, re-evaluate my interpretation with this new information.
Again, an argument can be true but still be illogical
If we don't assume anything outside of our knowledge I don't see how.... I think the sky is blue.The sky and the grass are not the same color. (P!=Q) The grass is not blue. (!P) Therefore, the sky is blue. (-> Q) That argument is illogical but the conclusion that the sky is blue is true. {ABE} If logic dicated truth, wouldn't this dictate that the sky is not blue? Also, I though of a better, more clear, example. 1) If it is raining then it is wet outside. (If P then Q)2) It is wet outside. (Q) C) Therefore it is raining. (--> P) Now, here in St. Louis, Missouri, USA. It is raining, that is the truth. However my reasoning for concluding that it is raining is illogical. Can you see how logic does not dictate truth? {/ABE}
If you threw the coin so hard that it exited the Earth's gravitational pull then, logically, it would not come back down.
Can you throw a coin and make it leave the gravitational pull ? If it is attached to a rocket It doesn’t really matter though. I was just being pedantic to exemplify the problem with the absolute statements that you tend to make.
Please note that my annoying comment arent there to annoy you. It is justs omething that I find quite logical. And usually don't spend to much time explaining it. But I'll try each time to make myself a little bit clearer I don’t think you are trying to be annoying. Its just that you jump around and misrepresent what I’ve said and reply with thing that are not really applicable, etc. Don’t worry about it though, I’m enjoying our discussion. Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE
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Kader Member (Idle past 3749 days) Posts: 156 Joined: |
It would only be evidence for either the soul or the belief in god and it would all be subjective. Exactly, there would be no evidence for Jesus etc..So evidence for Sould + God doesnt equal to christianism. I think the only illogical assumption that I make is that God is omnipotent. And that Jesus existed. And everything that you cant really tell but hold true because of the bible. what I said
quote: And in your example you use partial logic to achieve something
quote: 1) If it is raining then it is wet outside. (If P then Q) 2) It is wet outside. (Q) C) Therefore it is raining. (--> P) This is Formal Logic and although your axiom is true (as it should be)you didn't complete your theorem. Because to be able to conclude that it is raining it would have to be 1) It is always raining when it is wet outside2) It is wet outside 3) Therefore it is raining Now that was logical and true.
If it is attached to a rocket It doesn’t really matter though. I was just being pedantic to exemplify the problem with the absolute statements that you tend to make. Yeah I know, but if you don't modify my sentence, and if you throw a coin in the air logic dictate that it will come back down. No excpetions
I’m enjoying our discussion.
So am I
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Exactly, there would be no evidence for Jesus etc.. So evidence for Sould + God doesnt equal to christianism. We’ve already covered this, I already agreed and said the same.
you didn't complete your theorem. Because to be able to conclude that it is raining it would have to be That was the point, that my argument was not logical, it was true however. Logic does not dictate truth.
1) It is always raining when it is wet outside That’s a false premise.
Now that was logical and true. Woopty-freakin-do. You totally missed the point.
No excpetions You just HAD to throw that in there, huh?
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Kader Member (Idle past 3749 days) Posts: 156 Joined: |
Well i don't want to quote wiki on logic, but if you read it, you can make "anything" true by that logic. Wich is why it's only partial logic.
So if logic doesn't dictate truth what does ?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Well i don't want to quote wiki on logic, but if you read it, you can make "anything" true by that logic. Wich is why it's only partial logic. So if logic doesn't dictate truth what does ? Maybe you should read the wiki article on truth.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5871 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
So if logic doesn't dictate truth what does? Here is a short 5 paragraph answer to your question... Oops, something lost
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
The last line from your link:
quote: Jesus Christ, Scientist. Faith takes a backseat. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5871 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Faith takes a backseat Faith is believing because it makes sense. It is seeing... not blind. It is truely believing that the universe is just and merciful in an ultimate sense. Jesus didn't leave the blind in their blindness and tell them to just believe. You don't understand what you say, and that is blind faith, because it makes no sense. I think you're confusing faith with hope. Mark 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scottness writes: Faith is believing because it makes sense. It is seeing... not blind. On the contrary:
quote: Faith is for what is not seen - when there isn't enough visible evidence to "make sense".
I think you're confusing faith with hope. Well, they're both right there in the same verse. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5871 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is for what is not seen - when there isn't enough visible evidence to "make sense". Who taught you how to diagram sentances? faith is the substance = the evidence things hoped for = things not seen Hebrews 11 is a simple y is to t,as j is to b equation. You cannot be that stupid...
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
I don't see what your confusion is here.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Things hoped for are not seen. Therefore, faith is for what we don't see. I was agreeing with Ravi Zacharias - that Jesus wants us to question. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5871 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
I don't see what your confusion is here. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Things hoped for are not seen. Therefore, faith is for what we don't see. I was agreeing with Ravi Zacharias - that Jesus wants us to question. Lol... no my little fiend. Jesus doesn't ask us to question logic, but to test whether truth claims are logical. There is a difference. Let's examine your truth claim... Faith is the substance- That is the clear thinking and logic (what is seen). of things hoped for- So we multiply (that's what 'of' means) the logical extensions. We reach out with our thinking to see if what is hoped for is well reasoned against what we do see (if it is consistent). Things hoped for are not seen Yes, like Justice. Therefore, faith is for what we don't see. As I said before, it is for you, but not for me. Mark 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scottness writes: Jesus doesn't ask us to question logic.... And I didn't say that, did I? I said I agreed with your source. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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